Question Regarding Restricted Firearm Storage

B

bruh

Member
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
15   0   0
Location
GTA
Hello all,

New to the forums, and I just recieved my PAL yesterday in the mail for both non-restricted and restricted. I have been out shooting many times, and have grown fond of pistol target shooting. I am looking to purchase a handgun for my first firearm, but was curious if someone could provide me with an example of what the minimum storage requirements would be. I rent a house and space is currently limited in my closet. I have no access to a basement. Any small safe I get, does it have to be bolted to the floor? I understand the firearm has to be kept in something that is not easily broken into, but it says nothing about whether the safe has to be secured to the floor.

Would something like this be acceptable as long as I had the trigger guard on as well? http://www.basspro.com/StackOn-Strong-Box-Computer-Safe-with-Electronic-Lock/product/10212841/

I have no intention of storing ammunition in my home until I have purchased a home and can have a proper gun vault/safe installed. Thanks for any information you can provide!
 
The minimum IMHO would be:

Attach a secure locking device so the firearms cannot be fired (ie trigger lock) and lock them in a cabinet, container (ie tool box, gun box etc.) or room that is difficult to break into.
 
Straight off the RCMP website.

"Attach a secure locking device so the firearms cannot be fired and lock them in a cabinet, container or room that is difficult to break into; or

Lock the firearms in a vault, safe or room that was built or modified specifically to store firearms safely.

For automatic firearms, also remove the bolts or bolt carriers (if removable) and lock them in a separate room that is difficult to break into."
 
AR.boy said:
The minimum IMHO would be:

Attach a secure locking device so the firearms cannot be fired (ie trigger lock) and lock them in a cabinet, container (ie tool box, gun box etc.) or room that is difficult to break into.
Click to expand...

So that container I posted should be good enough then in the unlikely situation I have an officer at my house? Here is the link again of what safe I am talking about: http://www.basspro.com/StackOn-Strong-Box-Computer-Safe-with-Electronic-Lock/product/10212841/

kyoboof said:
Straight off the RCMP website.

"Attach a secure locking device so the firearms cannot be fired and lock them in a cabinet, container or room that is difficult to break into; or

Lock the firearms in a vault, safe or room that was built or modified specifically to store firearms safely.

For automatic firearms, also remove the bolts or bolt carriers (if removable) and lock them in a separate room that is difficult to break into."
Click to expand...

Yes, well I appreciate you posting that, I am aware of those rules but was looking for experienced restricted firearm owners opinions on if they considered that I posted meeting the requirements of the RCMP.

Onagoth said:
You just got your restricted license and they didn't cover storage?
Click to expand...

Yes they covered gun storage, and yes I have read the incredibly general requirements for gun storage. My question was about what is considered a container that is difficult to break into and provided a link to a small handgun safe that while appears to be difficult to break into, it could easily be picked up and moved unless it was bolted to the ground/etc. Seeing as I am currently renting and trying to avoid permanently installing a gun safe in my closet, would that small safe from bass pro be enough to satisfy the RCMP's requirement.

Considering this is a Newbie FAQ section, I figured this would be a good place to get specific examples (not a repeat of the rules) on what most would consider adequate storage for someone in my situation.
 
I'd go above and beyond what the law tries to say. If you guns are stolen, it might be costly(in court) to prove you did the right thing.
 
trebor2880 said:
I'd go above and beyond what the law tries to say. If you guns are stolen, it might be costly(in court) to prove you did the right thing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the plan is to get set up properly once I move. Until then I was just interested in what experienced users here thought about if that safe satisfies what the RCMP has listed. Obviously a police officer who wants to charge you for improper firearm storage is going to no matter what despite if you technically met the requirements. Thanks for the info.
 
I have a friend who uses 2 small fire safes. There are 4 holes, 2 in the back and 2 on the bottom. You could use 2, 3" deck screws to secure in either sets of holes. He also uses a trigger lock and the safes are in a locked closet. The 2nd safe is for ammo which needs to be stored separately of course. It cost him $150 for both safes. I think it is the best investment he had ever made because one of his roommate had some problems with the police and when the police arrived they asked to see how his firearm was stored. The two offices checked it out, looked at each other and said "no storage issues here" and when about their business at hand. Win!
 
Personally, I bought a pistol case that can hold four handguns. I used long padlocks with a key to open the padlocks. Home Depot sells four padlocks using the same key. That satisfies the locked container requirement. Secondly, I place a trigger lock on each pistol (Second requirement). Lastly, my handguns are unloaded (Third requirement). You can hide the pistol case behind in a stack column of moving boxes or banker boxes.

In your situation, forget about buying a gun safe. Loose lips sink ships. Don't go bragging to friends or family members about your firearms.
 
Garaldtao said:
I have a friend who uses 2 small fire safes. There are 4 holes, 2 in the back and 2 on the bottom. You could use 2, 3" deck screws to secure in either sets of holes. He also uses a trigger lock and the safes are in a locked closet. The 2nd safe is for ammo which needs to be stored separately of course. It cost him $150 for both safes. I think it is the best investment he had ever made because one of his roommate had some problems with the police and when the police arrived they asked to see how his firearm was stored. The two offices checked it out, looked at each other and said "no storage issues here" and when about their business at hand. Win!
Click to expand...

I think I will in fact drill the small safe into the closet some how, just as an added measure. Thanks

fow1 said:
Personally, I bought a pistol case that can hold four handguns. I used long padlocks with a key to open the padlocks. Home Depot sells four padlocks using the same key. That satisfies the locked container requirement. Secondly, I place a trigger lock on each pistol (Second requirement). Lastly, my handguns are unloaded (Third requirement). You can hide the pistol case behind in a stack column of moving boxes or banker boxes.

In your situation, forget about buying a gun safe. Loose lips sink ships. Don't go bragging to friends or family members about your firearms.
Click to expand...

Completely agree about the loose lips part. The only people who know are my girlfriend, roommate, and one other fellow close friend who is a fellow RPAL holder in another province. Thanks for the post!
 
Ammo can be stored with the firearm if requirements are met.
6. An individual may store a restricted firearm only if

(a) it is unloaded;


(b) it is

(i) rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device and stored in a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or


(ii) stored in a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of restricted firearms and that is kept securely locked; and



(c) it is not readily accessible to ammunition, unless the ammunition is stored, together with or separately from the firearm, in

(i) a container or receptacle that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or


(ii) a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of restricted firearms and that is kept securely locked.


Garaldtao said:
I have a friend who uses 2 small fire safes. There are 4 holes, 2 in the back and 2 on the bottom. You could use 2, 3" deck screws to secure in either sets of holes. He also uses a trigger lock and the safes are in a locked closet. The 2nd safe is for ammo which needs to be stored separately of course. It cost him $150 for both safes. I think it is the best investment he had ever made because one of his roommate had some problems with the police and when the police arrived they asked to see how his firearm was stored. The two offices checked it out, looked at each other and said "no storage issues here" and when about their business at hand. Win!
Click to expand...
 
From Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms by Individuals Regulations at http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-209/page-3.html#h-4


6. An individual may store a restricted firearm only if

(a) it is unloaded;

(b) it is

(i) rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device and stored in a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or

(ii) stored in a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of restricted firearms and that is kept securely locked; and


​
(c) it is not readily accessible to ammunition, unless the ammunition is stored, together with or separately from the firearm, in

(i) a container or receptacle that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or

(ii) a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of restricted firearms and that is kept securely locked.
​

So you need to meet the conditions of (a), (b) and (c). That's it. Of course, the grey area is the concept of "secure storage". I'm no lawyer, but I've dealt with the storage of military and classified hardware for years, and the definition generally accepted is "Anything you need a tool to break into, and can't easily pick up to run away with." If you can break open the container with bare hand or booted feet, it's not secure enough.

It could be a padlocked metal box, a padlocked hard plastic case (pelican type), a key-locked gun cabinet, a combination safe, a locked storage closet or a zombie-proof survival shelter with armory vault buried six feet under your backyard. Just keep one wee tiny detail in mind: there's not much point in padlocking a container if your average joe can just pick it up and carry under his arm. Pick a container that's either too cumbersome or too heavy to run away while carrying it, otherwise you have to secure the container itself to a structural part of the residence.

Hope this helped!
 
Minimum standard would be storing your unloaded pistol in the gun safe illustrated 6(a) + 6(b)(ii) + 6(c) or 6(c)(ii). Potential risk is that LEO considers safe a cabinet & that the regs required a trigger lock. I keep trigger locks on mine just for convenience (required for transport) even though they're all stored in a gun safe.

STORAGE OF RESTRICTED FIREARMS
6. An individual may store a restricted firearm only if
(a) it is unloaded;
(b) it is
(i) rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device and stored in a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or
(ii) stored in a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of restricted firearms and that is kept securely locked; and
(c) it is not readily accessible to ammunition, unless the ammunition is stored, together with or separately from the firearm, in
(i) a container or receptacle that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or
(ii) a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of restricted firearms and that is kept securely locked.
Click to expand...
 
Grawfr said:
From Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms by Individuals Regulations at http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-209/page-3.html#h-4


6. An individual may store a restricted firearm only if

(a) it is unloaded;

(b) it is

(i) rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device and stored in a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or

(ii) stored in a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of restricted firearms and that is kept securely locked; and


​
(c) it is not readily accessible to ammunition, unless the ammunition is stored, together with or separately from the firearm, in

(i) a container or receptacle that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or

(ii) a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of restricted firearms and that is kept securely locked.
​

So you need to meet the conditions of (a), (b) and (c). That's it. Of course, the grey area is the concept of "secure storage". I'm no lawyer, but I've dealt with the storage of military and classified hardware for years, and the definition generally accepted is "Anything you need a tool to break into, and can't easily pick up to run away with." If you can break open the container with bare hand or booted feet, it's not secure enough.

It could be a padlocked metal box, a padlocked hard plastic case (pelican type), a key-locked gun cabinet, a combination safe, a locked storage closet or a zombie-proof survival shelter with armory vault buried six feet under your backyard. Just keep one wee tiny detail in mind: there's not much point in padlocking a container if your average joe can just pick it up and carry under his arm. Pick a container that's either too cumbersome or too heavy to run away while carrying it, otherwise you have to secure the container itself to a structural part of the residence.

Hope this helped!
Click to expand...

Thank you, that's exactly the type of information I was looking for. I wasn't trying to come off as someone that fell asleep during the CFSC, but when I look at the guidelines, I just feel uncomfortable with how loose they really are. So I wanted to hear what others thought the minimum way of storing a pistol was while at the same time satisfying the majority of LEO's you could encounter. Thanks again!
 
bruh said:
Yes they covered gun storage, and yes I have read the incredibly general requirements for gun storage. My question was about what is considered a container that is difficult to break into and provided a link to a small handgun safe that while appears to be difficult to break into, it could easily be picked up and moved unless it was bolted to the ground/etc. Seeing as I am currently renting and trying to avoid permanently installing a gun safe in my closet, would that small safe from bass pro be enough to satisfy the RCMP's requirement.

Considering this is a Newbie FAQ section, I figured this would be a good place to get specific examples (not a repeat of the rules) on what most would consider adequate storage for someone in my situation.
Click to expand...

Fair enough but keep in mind very few people here are even remotely qualified to interpret how the law might be applied in court.

There was a case involving someone in Toronto who was charged with unsafe storage after it took some thieves an entire weekend to break into his tool resistant floor mounted safe....

My view....do what you think the law requires....don't be afraid to do some research on how the courts have applied the storage regs.
 
whiteoutjeeper said:
Where is the requirement that a container be attached to the structure of the building it is in?
Click to expand...

Sigh. There's always one that must ignore common sense considerations. "Show me the law that says I can't drive with both eyes closed!"


Actually, that requirement exists in military regulations for the storage of classified information and equipment in homes (INFOSEC 2). Precisely because we don't want thieves to simply look at the nice portable fire-proof safe, think "I'll open that at home when I have time", pick it up and leave with it.

I'll freely grant you, there's no explicit requirement that a small container must be attached to the structure. The requirement is:

(i) rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device and stored in a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or

(ii) stored in a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of restricted firearms and that is kept securely locked;​

This said, without being a lawyer, I can just about guarantee you that a small (i-e portable) container for a handgun that is not secured against unauthorized removal will not be deemed to be "secure storage" by a judge. There's no point in placing the handgun in the most resistant case in existence if you let the thief take it home so he can break it open at his leisure!

And of course, there's a matter of degree to this concept, like for the unattended storage of weapons in a vehicle: it's a risk management issue and the idea is that the weapons are not usually left in a vehicle for permanent storage.
 
Grawfr said:
This said, without being a lawyer, I can just about guarantee you that a small (i-e portable) container for a handgun that is not secured against unauthorized removal will not be deemed to be "secure storage" by a judge. There's no point in placing the handgun in the most resistant case in existence if you let the thief take it home so he can break it open at his leisure!
Click to expand...


Wrong...read the case law. Judges in multiple cases have held that if the governments intention was to have gun containers and safes fastened to a structure, then they would have put that in the legislation.

Another one people go on about is how thick the material must be on a cabinet or safe before its considered "specifically constructed for the storage of restricted firearms". Again, judges have held that if our elected representatives intended to have minimum manufacturing standards, then they would have specified those in the legislation as numerous states do within the US.

By the by, military regulations is a straw man argument here....it has no relevance to the storage regulations specified in the Firearms Act. There is no common sense required in criminal law...the law explicitly states what must or must not be done. Interpretations is left to the courts, but only when the language is unclear or the meaning or intent is in question. The courts (judges) cannot subvert the law by inventing their own requirements like "bolting a case to the floor"
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom