Clean powder with reasonable price

for 9mm vita n320 is the best, compared to titegroup, per round you are only looking at 1c per shot increase in cost. for example

i paid 30 $ flat for titegroup,
1lb = 7000 grains
my load is 3.2gr of titegroup for 147gr frontier TMJ RN with cci primer
7000 gr at that load will yield me just over 2100 rds per lb.
thats around 0.013 cents per shot.. aka 1 cent a shot..

n320 i paid 57$ a lb after taxes
n320 load would be 3.4gr with the same bullet and primer
i would get 2058ish rounds per lb with that load
costing me around 0.027 cents per shot..


really only 1c difference between the two and n320 performs way better and cleaner then titegroup ( in 9mm luger) i dont know about other calibers.
 
serbinator said:
for 9mm vita n320 is the best, compared to titegroup, per round you are only looking at 1c per shot increase in cost. for example

i paid 30 $ flat for titegroup,
1lb = 7000 grains
my load is 3.2gr of titegroup for 147gr frontier TMJ RN with cci primer
7000 gr at that load will yield me just over 2100 rds per lb.
thats around 0.013 cents per shot.. aka 1 cent a shot..

n320 i paid 57$ a lb after taxes
n320 load would be 3.4gr with the same bullet and primer
i would get 2058ish rounds per lb with that load
costing me around 0.027 cents per shot..


really only 1c difference between the two and n320 performs way better and cleaner then titegroup ( in 9mm luger) i dont know about other calibers.
Click to expand...

Cost comparisons are a matter of taste and budget. I have used a lot of the VHT powders and found them outstanding for both accuracy and for burning clean.

If I was only going to have one of them, it would be N320. But I use a faster one for accuracy loads (N310) and a slower one (3N37) for power loads (9mm).

I bought it in large quantities for around $11 a pound.
 
serbinator said:
for 9mm vita n320 is the best, compared to titegroup, per round you are only looking at 1c per shot increase in cost. for example

i paid 30 $ flat for titegroup,
1lb = 7000 grains
my load is 3.2gr of titegroup for 147gr frontier TMJ RN with cci primer
7000 gr at that load will yield me just over 2100 rds per lb.
thats around 0.013 cents per shot.. aka 1 cent a shot..

n320 i paid 57$ a lb after taxes
n320 load would be 3.4gr with the same bullet and primer
i would get 2058ish rounds per lb with that load
costing me around 0.027 cents per shot..


really only 1c difference between the two and n320 performs way better and cleaner then titegroup ( in 9mm luger) i dont know about other calibers.
Click to expand...

Cost comparisons are a matter of taste and budget. I have used a lot of the VHT powders and found them outstanding for both accuracy and for burning clean.

If I was only going to have one of them, it would be N320. But I use a faster one for accuracy loads (N310) and a slower one (3N37) for power loads (9mm).

I bought it in large quantities for around $11 a pound.
 
That's interesting. Do you find in general that a faster burning powder is more accurate than a slower burning powder? I'm loading Longshot right now for IPSC, but have some Tightgroup as well. Just been tuning my 147gr loads for power factor, but will be working on accurate target loads for my various handguns next.

Ganderite said:
Cost comparisons are a matter of taste and budget. I have used a lot of the VHT powders and found them outstanding for both accuracy and for burning clean.

If I was only going to have one of them, it would be N320. But I use a faster one for accuracy loads (N310) and a slower one (3N37) for power loads (9mm).

I bought it in large quantities for around $11 a pound.
Click to expand...
 
Ganderite said:
Cost comparisons are a matter of taste and budget. I have used a lot of the VHT powders and found them outstanding for both accuracy and for burning clean.

If I was only going to have one of them, it would be N320. But I use a faster one for accuracy loads (N310) and a slower one (3N37) for power loads (9mm).

I bought it in large quantities for around $11 a pound.
Click to expand...

where in the hell did you get n320 for 11$ a lb.. :sok2

LUTNIT said:
Isn't Vv sold by the 500 gram (half kilo) bottle, not the pound (453.6 grams)?
So it would be 7716 grains in a bottle of Vv powder, not 7000. It's almost 10% more powder; not that insignificant.
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i bought the jug which is 2kg which is 4.4lbs. my mistake on the calculation.. which means it would end up being .025c a shot instead of .027.. not a significant amount... unless you shoot like 10k rounds a month! :sok2
 
My VV jug is marked 4lbs. What's with the varying measurements? I'd also like the to know how many decades ago Ganderite was purchasing this stuff for $11 a pound??
 
serbinator said:
not a significant amount... unless you shoot like 10k rounds a month! :sok2
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Not significant on a per cartridge basis but if it reduces the cost of the powder by 10% (or increase the numbers of cases you can load by 10%) it is at least somewhat significant. If instead of 2000rnds you can now load 2200rnds, that's still an extra 200rnds.

B said:
My VV jug is marked 4lbs. What's with the varying measurements?
Click to expand...
My guess would be either packaged for the US market so reduced to only 4lbs to make it easier for people in the US to compare to other US powders or it still contains 2kg (4.4lbs) and was labelled "4lbs" for the US market who have no understanding of metric and it's easier to compare rather than it saying "4.4lbs".
I would also guess that if your container says "4lbs" then it was imported from the US. All the Vv powder I've seen is imported from Europe and the labels are all metric.
 
Cost doesn't necessarily correlate with cleanliness or quality. American Select can work for 9, 45 and 38 at least. It was cheap. It's pretty clean. It makes accurate ammo. For 9 you're right up against the max load, which I don't like, and it gets ugly when it's above it. You may not like the way it meters - flakes the size of dinnerplates. I would buy a jug if it was available, but not over different powders for different cartridges.
 
VanMan said:
That's interesting. Do you find in general that a faster burning powder is more accurate than a slower burning powder? I'm loading Longshot right now for IPSC, but have some Tightgroup as well. Just been tuning my 147gr loads for power factor, but will be working on accurate target loads for my various handguns next.
Click to expand...

Accurate loads are usually fast powders. Bullseye being the mainstay for many decades.

Powder burns most reliably at a certain pressure range, which is usually quite high. High pressure with a medium or slow powder gives high velocity - not required for match ammo.

So, to get high pressure for reliable, clean burns you use a fast powder with a quick pressure spike. Velocity is not high. N310, Bullseye and TiteGroup are good examples.

I used to have a manufacturing license and bought powder directly from the factory in commercial packaging (20 kg drums). When you buy by the ton, prices are different. IMR powders were $8.00 a pound, or less. This was about 10 years ago.
 
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Hotter loads usually burn cleaner. There is no powder that is "clean burning" across the spectrum. Some powders will be better than others with some cartridges. faster burning powders can tend to be cleaner burning but again - this varies with pressure.

generally speaking if a powder is leaving lots of residue in the barrel you probably aren't using an optimum powder or load.
 
So many folks saying that W231 is dirty. It can be - if loaded on the light side. If your loads are closer to the maximum (if your gun shoots those well, and is safe, etc) then I don't find W231 dirty at all. I primarily use it in .45 acp and have never had an issue with W231 being dirty.
 
jethunter said:
Hotter loads usually burn cleaner. There is no powder that is "clean burning" across the spectrum. Some powders will be better than others with some cartridges. faster burning powders can tend to be cleaner burning but again - this varies with pressure.

generally speaking if a powder is leaving lots of residue in the barrel you probably aren't using an optimum powder or load.
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I agree.

If you load a max load, pressure (and velocity) will be high. The pressure might be max for the cartridge (say 15,000 psi) but still well below the optimum pressure for the powder. The result would be "dirty" and accuracy might be poor.

The same powder, loaded in a 357 mag or 9mm at max load would be about 35,000 psi, and at that pressure the powder might be very clean, consistent and accurate.

Newbies often look at the load manual and pick a powder that gets the most velocity, and then down load that powder, for moderate velocity. But that slow powder would probably do very poorly at less that full power.

There are a few powders that work quite well at both max and minimum loads - Unique being an example ( and hence the name.)

I have several powders I use for high velocity, full power loads. 3N37, Power Pistol, Blue Dot, H110, 296.

For lower velocity, medium power, accuracy loads, I use faster powders. TiteGroup, 700X, Bullseye, 231 and N310. These powders develop good pressure, but the burn is so short the velocity is not high. Accuracy is very good. For general purpose plinking, competition and accuracy work Titegroup and 231 would be hard to beat.

If I had to make the most accurate ammo possible, I would use N310. It is very fast and very accurate, but costs double, or more.
 
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