Hollow Point Hunting???

[Kelly Timoffee]

Impact velocity and construction are the determining factors to decide on usage.

Some HP are for varmints some for human(defense), some for hunting, some for target.

Quite a varied product line these days.

Never hurts to go by manufacturer recommendations.

 

[gwes2003]

a good quality bullet will always be worth the money when it comes to hunting. You have to suit your bullet to the game you are after. Obviously if your going after large thick skin heavy bone animals, Moose, grizzly, elk etc, you will want a bullet that'll expand deeper into the tissue to get to the vitals. Something like the barnes tsx, or the nosler accubond. If you're going for something smaller like deer, or prong horn, those bullets might not even start expanding at ranges of 100 yds or less on something that small, you'd want to go to a soft point as suggested, like a nosler partition, or a sp corlokt, or a hollowpoint like the winchester power max.

I used a barnes tsx on a vancouver island buck at 15 yards with a 7mm rem mag. The bullet expanded nicely.

 

[Northman999]

IMO hollow points have no business as a hunting bullet beyond varmints. They are just not designed for deep penetration. If your goal is a big hole I'd suggest something like a ballistic tip.

There are hollow points out there that are plenty tough and specifically designed for hunting.

The Hornady .25 cal 120 gr Interlock HP, for example is one of the toughest and deepest penetrating .25 cal bullets out there, only really behind the monometals (most of which are holllow points...)

There are plenty of other examples out there...

 

[ironsighter]

IMO hollow points have no business as a hunting bullet beyond varmints. They are just not designed for deep penetration. If your goal is a big hole I'd suggest something like a ballistic tip.

You do realize that Barnes TSX bullets are "hollow point" don't you?

Indeed. Not to mention the Sierra Game King. Probably one of the most widely used big game hunting bullets of all time. A hollow point.

 

[ironsighter]

Why wouldn't they expand at under 100 yards?

Because if a bullet meets very little resistance at high velocity (close range), it tends not to expand as readily. The same bullet, at the same velocity, but on a larger/tougher animal will expand more reliably.

Hence the sporadic reports of abysmal failure of stout monometal bullets on light-bodied medium game at short ranges.

This is also why a lighter bullet or a softer bullet is sometimes a better choice depending on game size, distance, etc.

 

[daka]

Hollow point does not have to do anything with bullet construction and no indication of how deep they penetrate but HP as varmint and target should not be used for hunting big game. It is not humane for animals and no point in hunters satisfaction.
Bullets with heavy constructed core and jacket or full copper like barnes are whole different ball game no mater HP or tipped. Ones with thin jacket and semi filled core like Barnes Varmint Grenade or similar that mainly are used in coyote hunts to prevent exit wound and pelt damage should not be used for big game hunting

 

[Tazzy]

Shot a deer with a 25-06 hollow point, turned inside his chest to Jello.

 

[savagelh]

We have tried a couple different types of 7.62x39 hollow points on deer with not so good results. Seems the hollow point gets plugged with the hide and doesn't expand. I would stick to soft points.

I hate to say it but the problem probably wasn't the bullet but the caliber.

 

[Gatehouse]

Because if a bullet meets very little resistance at high velocity (close range), it tends not to expand as readily. The same bullet, at the same velocity, but on a larger/tougher animal will expand more reliably.

Hence the sporadic reports of abysmal failure of stout monometal bullets on light-bodied medium game at short ranges.

This is also why a lighter bullet or a softer bullet is sometimes a better choice depending on game size, distance, etc.

So higher velocity = less expansion?

 

[Gatehouse]

I hate to say it but the problem probably wasn't the bullet but the caliber.

Probably not. Most of the 7.62x39 HP ammunition I've seen doesn't appear to be designed to expand like the 7.62x39 SP bullets. The HP seem to be more like SMK, with expansion being erratic. I've been planning on trying some of it out in wet paper, so maybe I will get around to it soon.

 

[Brian46]

There are several hollow point bullets that are suitable for big game hunting, but I would caution against using hollow point pistol bullets fired at rifle velocities, or varmint bullets for use on big game as these are too fragile to produce anything but wounded game.

Why? The 450 Bushmaster uses a .452 diameter bullet just like a 45 pistol yet has been used successfully on many types of large game

The pic is of Remingtons premier line which resembles the Gold sabre pistol rounds in a copper jacket with an added plastic tip

 

[45ACPKING]

a while back I switched from the good ol .303 brit 180gr federal SP factory rounds for dropping close range deer to the .308 loaded with 165gr nosler partitions.
to put this into perspective, I doubt any heart/lung kill shot was further than 30 to 50 yards, if not closer. I ALWAYS aim for the same kill shot location.
the deer I was hunting stopped dropping dead in their tracks and instead I was having to find and retrieve in the very steep terrain I hunt in for those deer.
so I went back to the .303 180 gr and whaddya know, the deer started dropping close to the killshot instead of 50 to 100 yards away.
I figure that .308 is just going too quick and is not expanding the partition, causing a thru and thru.
the .303 180gr sp opens up a bigger wound channel and I've very often found the bullet with most of it's original mass/weight intact, but very nicely expanded
in my thinking, the slower heavier bullet is dumping far more energy at close range than the speedy .308
just my opinion.

 

[Gatehouse]

a while back I switched from the good ol .303 brit 180gr federal SP factory rounds for dropping close range deer to the .308 loaded with 165gr nosler partitions.
to put this into perspective, I doubt any heart/lung kill shot was further than 30 to 50 yards, if not closer. I ALWAYS aim for the same kill shot location.
the deer I was hunting stopped dropping dead in their tracks and instead I was having to find and retrieve in the very steep terrain I hunt in for those deer.
so I went back to the .303 180 gr and whaddya know, the deer started dropping close to the killshot instead of 50 to 100 yards away.
I figure that .308 is just going too quick and is not expanding the partition, causing a thru and thru.
the .303 180gr sp opens up a bigger wound channel and I've very often found the bullet with most of it's original mass/weight intact, but very nicely expanded
in my thinking, the slower heavier bullet is dumping far more energy at close range than the speedy .308
just my opinion.

So, more velocity = less expansion?

Hmmmm

 

[ironsighter]

So higher velocity = less expansion?

Velocity and weight determine momentum, and if this momentum is not met with enough resistance, then expansion can be less than ideal. This is particularly true if the projectile is stout and designed for penetration and "controlled expansion". Extra velocity, in this scenario, does not improve the performance on light-bodied medium game.

 

[45ACPKING]

So, more velocity = less expansion?

Hmmmm

they are those special deer that live up in them thar hills in yer neck of the woods though I haven't been back since the wolves tried to get me LOL
in my experience, with medium sized deer, at very close range heart/lung shots, broadside and unaware, those .303 180gr federal rounds dump all their energy in the animal, very few pass thru. In my experience, given the same parameters, the 165gr nosler partition passed thru , created a narrower wound channel and the deer were able to take off rather than stagger and drop. I dunno what to think of other than it's difficult enough terrain there to drag a deer out of as it is, let alone when they take off 100 yards up or downhill to die, in a direction that greatly increases the work LOL I'm sticking to the .303 for those deer

 

[the spank]

You do realize that Barnes TSX bullets are "hollow point" don't you?

No I do not because I don't handload and if I did they still wouldn't be loaded/used by me for big game. That is MY opinion and you are entitled to YOUR opinion as well.

 

[blacklab]

I've shot a lot of big game with .308 hollow points, they work just fine.

You will never get to be a Super Hero, unless you are using Barnes.

 

[Gatehouse]

they are those special deer that live up in them thar hills in yer neck of the woods though I haven't been back since the wolves tried to get me LOL
in my experience, with medium sized deer, at very close range heart/lung shots, broadside and unaware, those .303 180gr federal rounds dump all their energy in the animal, very few pass thru. In my experience, given the same parameters, the 165gr nosler partition passed thru , created a narrower wound channel and the deer were able to take off rather than stagger and drop. I dunno what to think of other than it's difficult enough terrain there to drag a deer out of as it is, let alone when they take off 100 yards up or downhill to die, in a direction that greatly increases the work LOL I'm sticking to the .303 for those deer

What you experienced wasn't a lack of expansion due to velocity. What you experienced was a Partition opening up fast at close range, losing the front half and the rear end penetrating through. The 180gr 303 has no partition so opened up, deformed, tumbled, whatever. If you had been using standard 165gr soft points in your 308 uou would have had similar results. Using a lighter, faster soft point might give even more dramatic bang-flops until you get to the point where there is not enough penetration at close range.

Because velocity ALWAYS increases expansion. No such thing as "the bullet was going too fast to expand"

 

[ironsighter]

What you experienced wasn't a lack of expansion due to velocity. What you experienced was a Partition opening up fast at close range, losing the front half and the rear end penetrating through. The 180gr 303 has no partition so opened up, deformed, tumbled, whatever. If you had been using standard 165gr soft points in your 308 uou would have had similar results. Using a lighter, faster soft point might give even more dramatic bang-flops until you get to the point where there is not enough penetration at close range.

Because velocity ALWAYS increases expansion. No such thing as "the bullet was going too fast to expand"

I see you don't save all your know-it-all attitude for the folks over at HBC.

Spend some time reading Nathan Foster's research, then go out and test various projectiles in hundreds of calibers, on many thousands of animals, and then create your own database of this information. At that point, you will be in a position to make authoritative statements - but you still won't know everything.

 

[Eagleye]

What you experienced wasn't a lack of expansion due to velocity. What you experienced was a Partition opening up fast at close range, losing the front half and the rear end penetrating through. The 180gr 303 has no partition so opened up, deformed, tumbled, whatever. If you had been using standard 165gr soft points in your 308 uou would have had similar results. Using a lighter, faster soft point might give even more dramatic bang-flops until you get to the point where there is not enough penetration at close range.

Because velocity ALWAYS increases expansion. No such thing as "the bullet was going too fast to expand"

I see you don't save all your know-it-all attitude for the folks over at HBC.

Spend some time reading Nathan Foster's research, then go out and test various projectiles in hundreds of calibers, on many thousands of animals, and then create your own database of this information. At that point, you will be in a position to make authoritative statements - but you still won't know everything.

Going to have to agree with Gatehouse on this one!! I have not taken as much Game as Nathan Foster, but, over 55+ years, I have been privileged to shoot a lot of game.
Well over 100 head with the Nosler Partition alone, plus 3x that many with other bullet designs.

In my personal experience, velocity ALWAYS increases the expansion rate of an expanding bullet. That is why some conventional C&C design bullets work great at, say 303 or 308 velocities,
but become "bombs" at 300 magnum velocities.

There is no such thing as going too fast to expand. If you want to see a collection of expanded bullets that are proof of this, I have plenty dug out of dead animals.
Too slow to expand....definitely! But too fast...just a myth that has been repeated over enough times to be accepted as gospel by the uneducated.

Regards, Dave.