Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Timing is everything with quality goods. Six years ago I picked up a good used but not abused, O/U SKB for 750.
Zero regrets here.
Are Shotguns Overpriced?
- Thread starter BCFred
- Start date
Timing is everything with quality goods. Six years ago I picked up a good used but not abused, O/U SKB for 750.
Zero regrets here.
I don't have any trouble with the fact that there is a difference between an expensive shotgun and cheap ones. I just think a decent, durable shotgun should be made for a lower price. I said $2000, which is somewhat arbitrary and I paid more for one of my B guns. I don't have any trouble with attractive wood or good ornamentation. Nothing wrong with that, it just doesn't affect my willingness to buy and I think I should be able to get a decent, long lasting shotgun for less that many thousand $. In short, I would truly love to own a Kolar, but I don't think I should have to buy one to shoot trap for more than one year. I am perfectly happy to admire a high end gun, just like I admire a high end car or anything else high end. But somewhere in there the quality ends and the hype takes over.
Fred my friend, two words!
Intrinsic Value!
You don't need anything fancier than a standard grade k-80, but a gold plantation grade is better
Beretta687EELL
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
IMHO, Berettas are probably the best value out there in a medium priced gun. As mentioned above, they will shoot for decades and can be rebuilt many times. I still own the one I shot for a number of years. However, there is no comparison between it and the Kolar with the custom stock that I shoot now. If you figure that I will shoot it for the rest of my life, it amortizes out to be fairly reasonable to shoot.
the spank
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Planet Earth Wearing My Tinfoil Hat
Fred my friend, two words!
Intrinsic Value!
You don't need anything fancier than a standard grade k-80, but a gold plantation grade is better
My XT Gold Trap isn't any better quality than my standard grade XT was but it's alot nicer to look at and it does have the added bonus of a factory installed Gracoil making it not only softer shooting but much better for tweeking the fit. So yes it is better!! 
R&R Rancher
CGN Regular
- Location
- Manitoba's Interlake
This one post should be stickied at the top of the forum for reference to all the "Want to buy a cheap O/U" threads we see.
In my limited experience it does seem to be a slippery slope. I started with a Mossberg 930 shot 2 boxes out of it , hated it and went looking for something more. Did it break clays ? Yep, but not pleasant. Bought a 3 1/2 " Cynergy used it for a couple of years clays and hunting , probably have 10-15,000 rnds through it and still have it. Then I bought a clay specific browning 525. Put 20,000 +\- rnds through it. Liked it , it was nicer for what I bought it for but I made the mistake of trying my friends Perazzis . Couldn't afford one but I did buy a Zoli Z -extra. Really nice gun , as close to a Perazzi as you can get but at half ( or more now ) the price. Put about 40,000 rnds through it ,again still have it. As I went up in $$$ the fit ,finish , triggers ,etc. did get better . Last year I took the plunge and ordered a Perazzi. Built exactly how I wanted it , picked the wood , barrels , fixed chokes ,etc. no regrets. I have about 5,000 rnds through it now and couldn't be more happier. As you go up in price they do get better, but the shooter has to do his part. I have autos also , I probably shoot my hunting Maxis almost as well as my Perazzi , but it's not nearly as enjoyable.
Fred my friend, two words!
Intrinsic Value!
You don't need anything fancier than a standard grade k-80, but a gold plantation grade is better
Got me Gwagen! It is the way things work and there is varying amounts of intrinsic value in most tools. I keep buying cheap box end wrenches to convince myself of this...lol! I appreciate the heads up on which K80 to buy too. I regret not buying a Mercedes for my first car too, both for the driving pleasure and the investment. If we all had to do that to drive though, there would likely be a lot fewer drivers. Maybe not such a bad thing until one starts thinking about the shooting sports. This last longer thing or break down thing doesn't seem to be mentioned when buying target rifles though, and I have wondered why. You never know...lol
Most target rifles dont see the usage of a target shotgun. The barrel will wear out on a rifle long before a quality shotgun stops working.
You can buy a shotgun that works well for much less then $2000, but it will be a 870 wingmaster or 1100 or some other quality pump/auto.
Go look at what it costs to get a quality double rifle and it will make shotguns look cheap.
Again, if a $1200 quality o/u was feasible, someone would be making a killing on them.
You can buy a shotgun that works well for much less then $2000, but it will be a 870 wingmaster or 1100 or some other quality pump/auto.
Go look at what it costs to get a quality double rifle and it will make shotguns look cheap.
Again, if a $1200 quality o/u was feasible, someone would be making a killing on them.
the spank
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Planet Earth Wearing My Tinfoil Hat
I've owned two of the premium brands you've mentioned and shot the other two. I've also owned a Beretta 686 and while I would agree on durability the build quality of the high-end guns is definitely better. Fit, finish, trigger pulls, barrel regulation are all better. They aren't two to three times better but quality improvements are not linear.
The point of diminishing returns begins with side plates on a box lock, engraving and exhibition wood. Engraving and fancy wood do nothing to improve a gun's durability or shootability and side plates weaken the stock, make the stock harder to remove plus they have to be engraved.
Not trying to offend the people who own them but a gun I've never understood is the Beretta 687EELL. You pay a lot for a very fancy and admittedly beautiful version of the same gun you could buy at half the price. For the same amount as the EELL you can buy two 687 Silver Pigeons, a 692 plus an A400 Sporting or come within a few hundred bucks of a DT11.
You can pay a LOT of $$$$$$$ for 'bling'. The EELL is very very pretty. The Crown grades (and other higher 'trim line' models) are beautiful. To some people it is worth the (often substantial) extra money. Will they be more reliable, or break more targets... probably not.
I shoot a base model of a high end shotgun. I would love to have the fancier looking gun, but I can't justify it. I appreciate the hell out of nice looking shotguns.
One point of contention I do have is about fit. I believe that if you are going to enter the high end market, that you should not use gunfit as a variable in deciding what is for you. A gun can be made to fit you. Through use of an adjustable stock, a gun fitter, and/or a custom stock you should be able to achieve gun fit. If you are getting into that market, you need to plan on spending money on making the gun fit you properly.
the spank
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Planet Earth Wearing My Tinfoil Hat
Don't we all?? It was great when flats were getting down to as low as $33! Then you could buy and shoot twice as much! Lol
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
I'm so pizzed at the price of everything ,my buddy and I are making our own shot now.
In the 28 and my vintage 12's with home made shot and bulk powder we can keep our cost down to the " holy crap even that's expensive" area!!
Cat
In the 28 and my vintage 12's with home made shot and bulk powder we can keep our cost down to the " holy crap even that's expensive" area!!
Cat
the spank
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Planet Earth Wearing My Tinfoil Hat
I'm so pizzed at the price of everything ,my buddy and I are making our own shot now.
In the 28 and my vintage 12's with home made shot and bulk powder we can keep our cost down to the " holy crap even that's expensive" area!!
Cat
I had a buddy who used to make his own shot. I watched one day as he TRIED to kill a couple ruffed grouse standing still with it from about 25 yards. I swear the stuff was so soft it flattened on impact against the grouse. They just stood there and shook as though they were trying to shake something out of their feathers. Never saw anything like it. I had to kill them for him. Later that day he set an empty windshield washer jug out at about 20 yards and shot it. There was all these grey coloured spots and some dents in the plastic but not a single hole. We both laughed our heads off over that. LOL
I think ammo is overpriced too. The cheapest flat at Wholesale Sports the other day was $85.00.
Comparing rifle and shotgun prices is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. But I would point out that highpower rifle barrels have to deal with much more heat and pressure and probably more friction too, than a shotgun barrel. My guess is you could probably shoot cast boolits at cast velocities for just about forever. Just like my Anschutz 22 is doing. I don't think rifles are any easier to make than shotguns either. I agree that double rifles are more expensive, but they are a specialty item without the demand that there is for single rifles. I agree as well that there is and esthetic feature that can be worth a lot of money to some people, my 686 is a bit like that. But I'm talking about a reasonably priced shotgun that will stand up. Not a work that necessarily has a high aesthetic appeal. I recall a story about Henry Ford where he was asked why a Model T sold for $100 more in Canada than in the U.S. These were the days when the C$ was around $1.05 U.S. Apparently he replied: 'It's because the Canadians will pay it.' or something like that. I don't know if the story is true, but it should be if it isn't. Nope, I think shotguns are the price they are because people who make shotguns are making money and don't have to do anything else.
Comparing rifle and shotgun prices is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. But I would point out that highpower rifle barrels have to deal with much more heat and pressure and probably more friction too, than a shotgun barrel. My guess is you could probably shoot cast boolits at cast velocities for just about forever. Just like my Anschutz 22 is doing. I don't think rifles are any easier to make than shotguns either. I agree that double rifles are more expensive, but they are a specialty item without the demand that there is for single rifles. I agree as well that there is and esthetic feature that can be worth a lot of money to some people, my 686 is a bit like that. But I'm talking about a reasonably priced shotgun that will stand up. Not a work that necessarily has a high aesthetic appeal. I recall a story about Henry Ford where he was asked why a Model T sold for $100 more in Canada than in the U.S. These were the days when the C$ was around $1.05 U.S. Apparently he replied: 'It's because the Canadians will pay it.' or something like that. I don't know if the story is true, but it should be if it isn't. Nope, I think shotguns are the price they are because people who make shotguns are making money and don't have to do anything else.
