Are Shotguns Overpriced?

[catnthehatt]

I had a buddy who used to make his own shot. I watched one day as he TRIED to kill a couple ruffed grouse standing still with it from about 25 yards. I swear the stuff was so soft it flattened on impact against the grouse. They just stood there and shook as though they were trying to shake something out of their feathers. Never saw anything like it. I had to kill them for him. Later that day he set an empty windshield washer jug out at about 20 yards and shot it. There was all these grey coloured spots and some dents in the plastic but not a single hole. We both laughed our heads off over that. LOL

Dunno what he was using for making his shot, but wheel weights sure break clays way out there on the skeet and trap range!
As far as birds go, I use nickle plated stuff for my birds, I only use the home made shot for the clays .
Cat

 

[hnachaj]

Shotshell prices in the mid 80s were about $50 + or - a flat. Gasoline was around $.40 a liter. So now shotshells are near $80 but gas is at $1.20 liter. Shotshells are made of petroleum products and lead. So shotshells have NOT followed the exponential path of other goods. I have a number of shotguns that include bespoke (just because I wanted something that nobody else had), semi (that has not been cleaned since 2003 , but works like a Swiss watch : 391 Optima Gold), high end target shotgun as in DT11.Shooting clays or birds the two favorites are the 391 with no sights and now the DT11. The ease of hitting targets or game is just amazing. All my shotguns shoot where I look. I have had to have sock work done to the 391. My Chapuis bespoke was right on with my measurements. The DT 11 was a stroke of luck as it was number 2 in Canada and had my exact measurements with extra wood! While one might not shoot better with a fancier shotgun, one feels better shooting one!

 

[rembolt]

Over/Under and SxS guns I can some what understand the pricing on .as there is a fair bit of hand fitting to a quality gun .now an autoloader where the parts are cnc machined and assembled on a line can be some what over the top . but in the end it comes down to what the market will bare .

 

[Pijetro]

Even the top end guns are getting CNC machined, with fitting done at the final stages..
The good news is that once the market saturates with these guns, people looking to get into serious sporting clays, will be getting way more bang for the buck, then ever before...

 

[legi0n]

I had a buddy who used to make his own shot. I watched one day as he TRIED to kill a couple ruffed grouse standing still with it from about 25 yards. I swear the stuff was so soft it flattened on impact against the grouse. They just stood there and shook as though they were trying to shake something out of their feathers. Never saw anything like it. I had to kill them for him. Later that day he set an empty windshield washer jug out at about 20 yards and shot it. There was all these grey coloured spots and some dents in the plastic but not a single hole. We both laughed our heads off over that. LOL

I call this

 

[Scar270]

BCFred, you are trying to compare building a single barrel rifle to a double barrel shotgun.

If you truly feel there is so much room to make them cheaper I encourage you to set up and start building them. I am certain there is a tremendous market for a $1000 o/u that will take 100,000 rounds or more before needing more then a cleaning.

 

[Brutus]

I think ammo is overpriced too. The cheapest flat at Wholesale Sports the other day was $85.00.
Comparing rifle and shotgun prices is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. But I would point out that highpower rifle barrels have to deal with much more heat and pressure and probably more friction too, than a shotgun barrel. My guess is you could probably shoot cast boolits at cast velocities for just about forever. Just like my Anschutz 22 is doing. I don't think rifles are any easier to make than shotguns either. I agree that double rifles are more expensive, but they are a specialty item without the demand that there is for single rifles. I agree as well that there is and esthetic feature that can be worth a lot of money to some people, my 686 is a bit like that. But I'm talking about a reasonably priced shotgun that will stand up. Not a work that necessarily has a high aesthetic appeal. I recall a story about Henry Ford where he was asked why a Model T sold for $100 more in Canada than in the U.S. These were the days when the C$ was around $1.05 U.S. Apparently he replied: 'It's because the Canadians will pay it.' or something like that. I don't know if the story is true, but it should be if it isn't. Nope, I think shotguns are the price they are because people who make shotguns are making money and don't have to do anything else.

Foot in mouth disease.

Fine shotguns are what they are because companies such as H&H make a great product. Or they would have closed their doors long long ago. I can't afford one either but it does not change fact number one.

Settle for the best quality product you can afford within your own budget.

The End!

 

[the spank]

Shotshell prices in the mid 80s were about $50 + or - a flat. Gasoline was around $.40 a liter. So now shotshells are near $80 but gas is at $1.20 liter. Shotshells are made of petroleum products and lead. So shotshells have NOT followed the exponential path of other goods. I have a number of shotguns that include bespoke (just because I wanted something that nobody else had), semi (that has not been cleaned since 2003 , but works like a Swiss watch : 391 Optima Gold), high end target shotgun as in DT11.Shooting clays or birds the two favorites are the 391 with no sights and now the DT11. The ease of hitting targets or game is just amazing. All my shotguns shoot where I look. I have had to have sock work done to the 391. My Chapuis bespoke was right on with my measurements. The DT 11 was a stroke of luck as it was number 2 in Canada and had my exact measurements with extra wood! While one might not shoot better with a fancier shotgun, one feels better shooting one!

I dont recall a flat in the mid 80's ever being $50? Flats back then were referred to as cases of ammo and were 20 boxes/500 rounds from what I remember? Prices ran around $80 - $110/case depending on type of shell. I used to shoot Federal Gold Medals back then. Lawry's was $100/case and $110/case for Gold Medal Paper. I can remember the first "flat" I bought as I remember thinking where is the other half?!!

 

[the spank]

I call this

You can call it whatever you wish ...........

 

[stubblejumper]

I call this

The velocity could be a huge factor. I have seen some loads that were so weak, that they wouldn't even break clays properly

 

[myob]

Ask some medium or larger employers, near you, what the health care costs are for their business. You would be amazed ... Also, consider what we pay in taxes in Canada to support our "free" health care system.

I can second that.

For my company, the health care benefits, insurances (such as AD&D, short & long term disability, and etc), and additional benefits such as floater days costs 60% of an employee's salary. So if you are paid $50,000 a year, it actually cost the company $80,000 a year to keep you employed.

 

[myob]

I like your analogy ... one step further ... it is like buying good vs. cheap dog food ... the good food allows the dog to perform better in the field and you end up with less poop on the lawn (LOL).

I like these analogies and I'm going to hit you guys with a fact:

Back in 1980's, a version of Minolta lenses sold for $200. In 2010, these lenses were designed so well and built like a tank, that a good to very good condition lens still sells for $200. Only thing hit them was inflation.

 

[the spank]

The velocity could be a huge factor. I have seen some loads that were so weak, that they wouldn't even break clays properly

Guaranteed that was a major player. Funny thing was there was all these flat lead discs laying on the ground after hitting the empty washer jug. We howled. My buddy was the original skin flint and I am sure he had those loads with the bare minimum of everything in them including recycled wads!! I can recall him melting plumbing solder through his shotmaker if it was acquired free. Lol

 

[fiddler]

Are Shotguns Overpriced?


Maybe shotguns aren't your sport if you can't appreciate a fine made shotgun. I shoot Beretta over/unders, they are balanced to the milometer and made with parts as fine as a swiss watch. They will last you a lifetime, and usually do. You generally get what you pay for. Sure you can get $1000 guns if that is your thing, but its not for everyone. I made payments on my first good shotgun 30 years and it still works like the day it was new. In your lifetime you will wear out a dozen cheap guns at a greater expense than the cost of one good one. Each to their own, but cheap guns are not my thing.

 

[the spank]

Are Shotguns Overpriced?


Maybe shotguns aren't your sport if you can't appreciate a fine made shotgun. I shoot Beretta over/unders, they are balanced to the milometer and made with parts as fine as a swiss watch. They will last you a lifetime, and usually do. You generally get what you pay for. Sure you can get $1000 guns if that is your thing, but its not for everyone. I made payments on my first good shotgun 30 years and it still works like the day it was new. In your lifetime you will wear out a dozen cheap guns at a greater expense than the cost of one good one. Each to their own, but cheap guns are not my thing.

I have a friend who is a great gunsmith. He shortened the stock on a 686 White Onyx for a friend one day. He looked that gun over with a fine tooth comb and said well I can honestly say the wood on all these Beretta Over/Unders I have ever worked on will be turned to dust from age and the three of us will be long gone before you'll ever wear the actions out! He felt Beretta O/U's were the best value for for your dollar.

 

[legi0n]

The velocity could be a huge factor. I have seen some loads that were so weak, that they wouldn't even break clays properly

If the velocity is so low then the pellet deformation is even lower. The guy states the pellets flattened to discs on plastic jug impact. This to me is high velocity against hardened steel.
I have hunted with pure lead #7 shot and believe me, at 25y the grouse had pellets in their hearts and lungs.
At the time I didn't use harder lead because I thought soft lead would be more forgiving if chomped on.
I might still have a pound of such soft shot. Once I find it I'll do a proof of concept.

 

[the spank]

If the velocity is so low then the pellet deformation is even lower. The guy states the pellets flattened to discs on plastic jug impact. This to me is high velocity against hardened steel.
I have hunted with pure lead #7 shot and believe me, at 25y the grouse had pellets in their hearts and lungs.
At the time I didn't use harder lead because I thought soft lead would be more forgiving if chomped on.
I might still have a pound of such soft shot. Once I find it I'll do a proof of concept.

Your avatar says it all buddy.......go prove your point.

 

[mrgoat]

In a nut shell "no" there cost is relative to everything else in the retail market. Some give good value, and some are junk. Others are some place in between.
My pheasant hunting partner always used a Rem 870 and couldn't understand why I liked OU's and they cost so much. I picked up a nice used Win 101, had Steve Milton do a little choke work on it and let him try it out on a pheasant trip. He bought the 101 off me, sold the 870, he loves the thing and won't use anything else. The Win 101 is a good solid OU but not top of the line by any means. I have always been partial to OU's. I like the stacked barrels as opposed to a side by each double. Never could afford the really pricey ones. Always bought the best I could afford and shot them lots when I had time. Currently have a Classic Doubles, and a Ithaca 20 ga double barrel, that my Dad gave me when I was 15 and started to hunt. It dates from the 30's, I could never part with it.

As stated by someone in a previous post the over priced shotguns are the ones that are built as cheaply as possible out of inferior materials and sell for 500 bucks +++. Run a case a ammo through them and there done.

 

[Brutus]

Are Shotguns Overpriced?


Maybe shotguns aren't your sport if you can't appreciate a fine made shotgun. I shoot Beretta over/unders, they are balanced to the milometer and made with parts as fine as a swiss watch. They will last you a lifetime, and usually do. You generally get what you pay for. Sure you can get $1000 guns if that is your thing, but its not for everyone. I made payments on my first good shotgun 30 years and it still works like the day it was new. In your lifetime you will wear out a dozen cheap guns at a greater expense than the cost of one good one. Each to their own, but cheap guns are not my thing.

My esoteric taste in shotguns led me to a real antique (not legally but otherwise) BP shotgun, initially built in the 1880s possible 1890s. Your theory stands true, even though I sent it to a reliable gunsmith to ensure it was made safe to shoot. These proper adjustments do not come cheaply, but are worth every single penny IMO. This old beast speaks once again since only God know's when?

Now I could say hammers back in salute to these fine older shotguns, but that's Cat's original motto!

cheers

 

[3macs1]

Are Shotguns Overpriced?


Maybe shotguns aren't your sport if you can't appreciate a fine made shotgun. I shoot Beretta over/unders, they are balanced to the milometer and made with parts as fine as a swiss watch. They will last you a lifetime, and usually do. You generally get what you pay for. Sure you can get $1000 guns if that is your thing, but its not for everyone. I made payments on my first good shotgun 30 years and it still works like the day it was new. In your lifetime you will wear out a dozen cheap guns at a greater expense than the cost of one good one. Each to their own, but cheap guns are not my thing.

Agree 100%. Life is too short to own cheap and ugly guns. I have quality guns that are on their third generation and still like the day they were bought
Cheers