Something older, something old, something new and something blued pics up

elkhuntr

elkhuntr

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Kamloops, BC
Hi folks. I have embarked on an experiment with the 30-06 RCBS Improved using some abnormal parts.

I have two other barrels chambered by my gunsmith using the same reamer in a sporter and precision rifle barrel. In this case however I was given a 1941 pre war winchester barrel as a gift. I know some enthusiasts will cringe at the history component but I am not a collector of the pre 64 winchesters and the barrel was not in perfect order. So I thought....and thought again. Posted the barrel on the EE with no buyer....then decided to rechamber the old 30 Govt-06 barrel for one of my Savage long action receivers I had on hand. I notieced that it had a 4 land/groove cut rifled barrel in very good order. A nice job using wipe out took out some decades old copper fouling. The barrel appeared to be in pristine condition for all those years sitting aside the venerable 270 win sister rifle my donor has. For those not in the know, RCBS was playing around the same time P.O. Ackley was doing his thing. RCBS decided the 30 degree shoulder while Ackley was using the 40. Better feeding is considered by some with the 30 degree.

I went to work on the barrel crown which had an unacceptable ding I noticed after cleaning. I used the old tested brass screw/grinding compound method and removed the imperfection. Now off to the smith for chambering, indexing and headspacing. I decided on maintaining the barrel nut as my stock was bedded for this receiver/barrel nut combo. The barrel needed indexing as the original open sights needed to be lined up perfectly. Headspace was set to 0 for positive fireforming. And I found a rear sight at the local gun show in advance of the project. The barrel was shortened 5/8 from 24".

My flat top Savage receiver dating from the late 60s has the factory fully adjustable trigger and breaks nicely in the 1.5lb range and thought it would be a good companion for the 25+ year older barrel it was to receive. The internal stack magazine with a modern follower should make feeding easy. And I understand some actions may have difficulty feeding the ackley style chambers, but I have not found this to be the case with the savage system. The new component was a new savage bolt body for the bolt parts I had on hand. No one on the EE had one so I picked one up from Brownells. In a week it was at my doorstep and I timed the spring length to 2.600(long action setting), set pin protrusion to 0.035 and installed the older blade style bolt nut/sleeve combo. These are much better than the newer system IMO, but more costly to produce in the day. Bolt lift is good compared to new style and smooth.

I refinished the the stock before hand this winter and it waited patiently for its companions. After receiving the barreled action back this week I did some final cold bluing and stock inletting (The old winchester barrel has a bulge at the rear sight which needed to be inletted to the savage stock). No issue and 5 min with a dremmel I was done. Installed and tightened up the action screws now I'm ready to go.

Now for some load development. I will update on the range results and post pics of this project. Enjoy.

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Range Report

Got to the range today for some load testing. Fire forming norma brass with Nosler ballistic tip 180gr, H4350, CCI250 primers with 10 thou jump, C.O.A.L 3.330. Rifle topped with a 3x9x40 legend. Groups shot at 9x with a 2 min wind from the back today. Good results all the same and will make a great companion this hunting season.

56.0gr, 2692fps, 1.172" group
56.5gr, 2713 fps, 1.275" group
57.0gr, 2730fps, 1.462" group
57.5gr, 2750 fps, 1.987" group
58.0gr, 2777 fps, 0.919" group
58.5gr, 2825 fps, 1.528" group high pressure starting, stopped here.

The 58.0 grain node Looks promising and with some tweaking with the fire formed brass, I think the old 180gr nosler partition will be in the sub moa zone as well. What a fun project making that 1941 barrel sing. They made them very well in the day.

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I am glad that you made that old barrel usefull again.
2800 fps with 180gr bullet is not to bad, and so is under 1 MOA accuracy, but useing up to about 62gr of RL 22 (fireformed case full) instead H4350 would get you some more accuracy IMHO and well over 2900fps as I am getting that much from the same case in my LH Ruger and 23" Shultz&Larsen barrel.
Also the Nosler BT in my opinion is a great plinking bullet but for hunting I don't trust them....
 
Good stuff! Reminds me of my old 308 Norma Magnum Frankenrifle: Parker Hale stock and floor plate/mag assy, Mauser action, Voere barrel, all bedded up in Marine-Tex. Never needs to have the scope adjusted, year after year. It was to be a loaner rifle, but turned out to be one of the most accurate and consistent rifles in the stable. Still is! :)

I often wonder how many potential hunting outfits are sitting around under benches, standing in corners, or even on a shelf in the garage, like that old Model 700 416 Remington barrel I see every time I'm out there looking for something?

Ted
 
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Scope height runs actually very well for my face, and may support a larger optic down the road. I did get out again with this rifle and the fire formed brass is proving well. With better matched brass (within 1gr weight) the groups are showing more consistency and flat. Will have to stretch it out to 200m for a test run. However, this is a a nice shooting rifle indeed. Thanks for the kind words. Will need to try that R22 some day Gunrunner. Elky.....
 
elkhuntr said:
56.0gr, 2692fps, 1.172" group
56.5gr, 2713 fps, 1.275" group
57.0gr, 2730fps, 1.462" group
57.5gr, 2750 fps, 1.987" group
58.0gr, 2777 fps, 0.919" group
58.5gr, 2825 fps, 1.528" group high pressure starting, stopped here.
Click to expand...

I hate to be a wet blanket, but I'm getting those velocities with IMR 4350 from a 22" barrel. I never matched the 2,825 figure, but I am averaging 2,770 with Nosler Partitions. Also a Winchester barrel, a featherweight. It would have been informative if you could have worked up some loads with the original chamber, then re-run the tests with the "Improved" chamber to see if there actually was any improvement.

One rifle doesn't prove anything, but it does tend to reinforce my skepticism of anything "improved".
 
Improved in the 30-06 apparently did nothing much for normal loads and I believe that holds true. Maybe a 5% gain in capacity and in some cases maybe 50-100 fps improvement. I agree, in this cartridge you do not gain much. However, with the right powder it can surpass expectations.

Remember I stopped load development early in the process and could have pushed the envelope to 59.5gr or so in my rifle with Nosler partitions. Also remember that I was fire forming brass while doing load testing. Once formed, the case capacity allows for increased loads. You can't do that with a normal 06 case because the capacity is not there and I was crunching powder as it was with the 58.5gr load while forming. Add in that the nosler ballistic tip I used in the load testing is a long bullet and it takes up more capacity in my rifle. The result is increased pressures. So with a bit more work I may have gained maybe 100fps and 2 shots brass life before expanded primer pockets and junk status. Not worth it, and a moose/elk will not know the difference.(They built a 300wm for those velocities right) In the normal 'O6, with a max of 57.5gr of H4350 the Hodgdon site shows 2800 with a 24" barrel. So my numbers are pretty close for a 23" barrel eh, with normal sane pressures.

It would be interesting to know your load as well to compare apples to apples because you can push it with a 22" barrel and at what cost. My old tried and true load for a normal 06 22" barrel was 56.0 gr IMR 4350 and that ran near 2700 fps or so with a 180gr hornady pill. So all our results will vary.

Remember, the general rule is about 25 fps per inch of barrel in the 06'. And for my elevation of the range (1700 ft) can affect readings as well, lower you go the lower velocity and visa versa. Even the readings from your chronograph can change over the day due to light conditions so use chronograph velocity data as a trend, rather than a fact (I am not shooting in a range tunnel).

Now the real gain you get from the improved is first and foremost brass life improvement. Once formed, you will likely not need to trim again(my results) and with neck sizing you can go 4-5 reloads before bumping back(using normal loads). So I have found this to be real positive and worth more than the potential gains in velocity in this cartridge. My 2c.
 
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9.3mauser said:
I hate to be a wet blanket, but I'm getting those velocities with IMR 4350 from a 22" barrel. I never matched the 2,825 figure, but I am averaging 2,770 with Nosler Partitions.
One rifle doesn't prove anything, but it does tend to reinforce my skepticism of anything "improved".
Click to expand...

Your 2770fps with 180gr NP in 22" long barrel is a possibility but only with exesive pressure IMO.
Hunting handloads should be free of suprises like pierced primers, loose primers pockets or detatched brass heads....
You could get the same speed in 30-06 IMP if desired with say 5000psi less pressure but useing the larger amount of slower burning powder.
This kind of trade I would gladly pay for trouble free shooting during the hunt when there isn't the time for experiments.
 
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