Thanks, could you also answer one last query for me? What is the difference between 7.5, 8 and 9 shot size in 20 gauge? In terms of recoil, cost and effectiveness with clays?
Starter shotgun?
- Thread starter amolkapoor
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Thanks, could you also answer one last query for me? What is the difference between 7.5, 8 and 9 shot size in 20 gauge? In terms of recoil, cost and effectiveness with clays?
Mumbles Marble Mouth
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland
Its just the size of shot. 8 shot 20 gauge and 8 shot 12 gauge is exactly the same size of shot just you obviously can fit more 8 shot in the 12 gauge than you can a 20 gauge. I use 6 shot for hunting, 7.5 - 8 for target loads. I've never used 9 shot. Recoil will depend on if you're shooting low brass or high brass. Low brass will have less recoil. I barely notice a difference with target loads. 20 gauge costs just about the same for 12 gauge in terms of target loads. However, when you go to a store looking for target loads, the store will more than likely have everything for 12 gauge while only having a small selection for 20. I've had to, in many occations, buy 20 gauge target loads by just the box and not a case lot.
Thanks, so I'm guessing no difference in recoil, just difference in shot size. I'll tryto figure out low brass and high brass. Learning so much from the good people here!
'Low brass' and 'high brass' are terms just adding confusion. Generally, target shells had a short metal head, and hunting loads had the brass go higher up the shell. It makes no difference, just a cosmetic/marketing thing. What is important would be the actual velocities, which should be printed on the box and the weight of shot. Target shells are typically in the 1,100 to 1,200 feet/second area. Hunting velocities can go to 1,500 fps commonly, for say steel waterfowl loads.
Don't get too fussed. Standard 20 gauge target loads of 7/8 oz of #7.5 or #8 shot around 1,200 fps is what you'll be shooting for clays. It's not inorganic chemistry or rocket science, it's shotgunning.
Don't get too fussed. Standard 20 gauge target loads of 7/8 oz of #7.5 or #8 shot around 1,200 fps is what you'll be shooting for clays. It's not inorganic chemistry or rocket science, it's shotgunning.
Thanks, so I'm guessing no difference in recoil, just difference in shot size. I'll tryto figure out low brass and high brass. Learning so much from the good people here!
The only things that effect recoil are shot weight ( not size ) powder charge weight, wad weight, velocity, and gun weight. How the gun fits will have an effect on how much recoil you feel.
I think whoever handed you the buckshot was having some fun at your expense. Until you switch to live game, don't concern yourself with shot size. #8's are fine for clays. They're not hard to break, but they can be tricky little buggers to hit, so the smaller shot will give you better pattern density. Get some 1 1/8 oz, or even 1 oz loads of #8 if you can find them ( assuming 12 gauge), and move on to other matters.
You'll notice a big difference when you're concentrating on hitting a moving target as opposed to shooting in cold blood. Back in my duck hunting days, I noticed a significant difference when finishing off a cripple as opposed to the shot that brought the duck down.
If you don't want to invest in a shooting vest, take a towel, fold it up, and put it over your shoulder, but under your shirt. You want to avoid letting the gun hurt you, that can lead to bad habits. You want a firm, but not death grip on the gun... about the firmness of a good handshake.
Personal instruction from a mentor will be worth 10,000 words on this forum.
Thanks guys, very kind of you to help out!
I'll look into recoil pads as well, just not sure about using them in this hot weather. Maybe I'll just get one and put it in my range bag. I'll get a 20 gauge as soon as I can, and will avoid shotgunning till then. Maybe a few more weeks (my app completed 28days on Monday), then I can get my own firearms and club membership and stop paying double for ammo and day passes!
I'll look into recoil pads as well, just not sure about using them in this hot weather. Maybe I'll just get one and put it in my range bag. I'll get a 20 gauge as soon as I can, and will avoid shotgunning till then. Maybe a few more weeks (my app completed 28days on Monday), then I can get my own firearms and club membership and stop paying double for ammo and day passes!
Mumbles Marble Mouth
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland
"The brass does not actually provide a significant amount of strength, but the difference in appearance provides shooters with a way to quickly differentiate between high and low powered ammunition. "
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pisces-guy
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- West Kelowna, B.C.
Less felt recoil with a semi auto, and perhaps you might want to go with a 20 gauge...shoot some 7/8 ounce light loads and you'll have no issues. I got my son an SA-08 Weatherby 20 gauge, and he loves it...works well too...
Pretty much! you can purchase target loads from 1145fps to over 1400fps, and they look similar from the outside, but they certainly don't feel the same as far as recoil in concerned. If you want a reasonable idea of the recoil to expect, look at the dram equivalent, rather than the length of the brass .
Apparently higher brass used to be necessary with some paper hulled shotshells, so the powder didn't burn through the hull, but these days, with plastic hulls, it isn't an issue.
Hello Pisces Guy,
Thanks for sharing that, could you please tell me the name/brand of the ammo you're using in the 7/8 ounce light laod for 20ga?
Thanks,
Amol
pisces-guy
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- West Kelowna, B.C.
You're welcome, Amol, and one of the reasons I went with the Weatherby SA-08 instead of the Mossberg SA-20 is that the Weatherby comes with a light valve for light loads, so you can reliably shoot 7/8 ounce light loads in the gun, and a standard valve for standard and magnum loads. The Mossberg shotgun has had all sorts of failures with light loads since it just comes with one do-it-all valve. The light ammo my son is using is the Federal Game Load, only 2 1/2 dram powder equivalent, 2 3/4" 20 gauge shells, with #6 lead shot...works beautifully on grouse with very little recoil.
FYI, Amol, my 12 gauge buckshot and slugs show the max 4 dram powder equivalent...which your shoulder became familiar with awhile ago...and you can see that my son's light loads only use a bit more than half of the powder that the magnum 12 loads do...
FYI, Amol, my 12 gauge buckshot and slugs show the max 4 dram powder equivalent...which your shoulder became familiar with awhile ago...and you can see that my son's light loads only use a bit more than half of the powder that the magnum 12 loads do...
You're welcome, Amol, and one of the reasons I went with the Weatherby SA-08 instead of the Mossberg SA-20 is that the Weatherby comes with a light valve for light loads, so you can reliably shoot 7/8 ounce light loads in the gun, and a standard valve for standard and magnum loads. The Mossberg shotgun has had all sorts of failures with light loads since it just comes with one do-it-all valve. The light ammo my son is using is the Federal Game Load, only 2 1/2 dram powder equivalent, 2 3/4" 20 gauge shells, with #6 lead shot...works beautifully on grouse with very little recoil.
FYI, Amol, my 12 gauge buckshot and slugs show the max 4 dram powder equivalent...which your shoulder became familiar with awhile ago...and you can see that my son's light loads only use a bit more than half of the powder that the magnum 12 loads do...
Any quality semi auto should cycle light target loads without having to change valves or pistons. A 20 gauge SX-3 for example, will shoot light target loads, and heavily field loads reliably with the same piston.
pisces-guy
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- West Kelowna, B.C.
I can tell you that I did some homework on the Weatherby and Mossberg prior to deciding on a 20 gauge for my son, and the Mossberg sites repeatedly spoke of mods that you can do to make the SA-20 cycle light 7/8 ounce loads reliably. The consensus was that you need to polish the action and chamber of the Mossberg, and ideas like wrapping fine steel wool around a 12 gauge swab, attached to a rod, and spun by a drill were mentioned. When the Mossberg internals were polished, it was said the SA-20 would reliably cycle many rounds of the light 7/8 ounce loads until it got dirty. The need to perform this work just to get the Mossy to operate reliably with the light loads I started my son shooting this past season, AND what I read about Weatherby customer service being superior to Mossberg's, is why I chose the Weatherby SA-08 for my son. I was looking at these two $500 semi autos, stubblejumper, I'm sure that more expensive shotguns have more engineering/quality control built into them and don't need a valve change to function reliably, but I was after an inexpensive first shotgun for my kid...
pisces-guy
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- West Kelowna, B.C.
That being said, the Weatherby SA-08 has worked flawlessly for my son, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to anyone looking for a reliable semi auto shotgun for a very reasonable price. Not saying it's as refined a wing shooter as some of the fine, expensive shotguns on the market, but it does seem to get the job done.
I'm thinking that your introduction to a 12ga shooting those buckshots wasn't likely to be a nice introduction. Shoot some target loads with 7 1/2 or 8 shot and see how it does for you. Decide upon what your final intentions are for such a shotgun, shoot the intended loads specific to your needs and decide from there. Shooting buck shot isn't something that anyone wants to do repeatedly. I can shoot trap loads nearly all day long and not suffer for it.
I have a 20g and don't feel much difference in recoil compared to my 12 gauges.
20g ammo will also typically cost you more.
The beauty with a 12g shotgun for recreational shooting/plinking is that you can get 25 rounds of birdshot for $8 and cases of cheap buckshot and slugs are a constant event.
20g ammo will also typically cost you more.
The beauty with a 12g shotgun for recreational shooting/plinking is that you can get 25 rounds of birdshot for $8 and cases of cheap buckshot and slugs are a constant event.
Thanks guys!
My reason for considering 20ga over 12ga is the logic of smaller calibre being easier, as in a .38special being easier than a .45ACP(hopefully I'm not mistaken). I do love pump action though, so basically just looking at the two calibres in Remington, Mossberg/Maverick models as those suit the budget.
I am thinking of paying a visit(literally, lol!) to an outdoor range soon to try 7.5/8 sized birdshot.
My reason for considering 20ga over 12ga is the logic of smaller calibre being easier, as in a .38special being easier than a .45ACP(hopefully I'm not mistaken). I do love pump action though, so basically just looking at the two calibres in Remington, Mossberg/Maverick models as those suit the budget.
I am thinking of paying a visit(literally, lol!) to an outdoor range soon to try 7.5/8 sized birdshot.
Thanks guys!
My reason for considering 20ga over 12ga is the logic of smaller calibre being easier, as in a .38special being easier than a .45ACP(hopefully I'm not mistaken). I do love pump action though, so basically just looking at the two calibres in Remington, Mossberg/Maverick models as those suit the budget.
I am thinking of paying a visit(literally, lol!) to an outdoor range soon to try 7.5/8 sized birdshot.
As has been pointed out in previous posts, it's false logic. Recoil has nothing specifically to do with gauge.....it is the relationship between the weight of the gun, the weight of the load and speed that load is accelerated to by the charge. The gauge of the gun doesn't matter, nor does the size of the shot. If you want to reduce recoil, choose a heavier gun and choose shotshells that have relatively small weights of powder (1 oz or less) sending the shot out of the gun relatively slowly ( 1150 fps, not 1450 fps).
Semis were suggested because they add a component to the recoil equation in that they use some of the recoil in cycling the shells, so you don't feel it. But the physics of recoil are inescapable. The force goes somewhere.
I shoot Winchester AA low noise low recoil target loads out of a single barrel 12 gauge that only weights five pounds. FYI a 6 pound 12 gauge is considered extremely light. A 5 pound 12 gauge is unheard of. I barely even feel those loads out of that gun, shooting targets in the middle of the summer with just a shirt on. And by that I mean shooting between 25 and 75 rounds during an outing.
Your introduction to shotgunning has caused you to obsess ( forgive the term) over an issue that isn't. Buy a typical pump in 12 gauge. It will weigh around 7 pounds. Shoot light target 12 gauge loads that are cheap and plentiful and you will never be concerned about recoil.
