What firearm NOT to use on grizzly bears.

SHELL SHUCKER said:
The .454 plenty potent enough for grizz inside of 100 yds. if the shooter is well practiced with the rifle. Lots of folks tend to go with heavy magnums because they've been convinced that bear & moose are tough to kill.
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A PH I've hunted with twice in Zimbabwe keeps a Freedom Arms .454 in the Land Rover for two reasons. #1 is the ease of carrying compared to his John Rigby .470 double when wandering off into the bushes for his morning constitutional. #2 is to deal with problem elephants that feel like messing with the Land Rover. While it's not a preferred way to deal with the situation, the couple of times it's escalated to that point, the result was a dead elephant.

Based on those results, I'm going to vote in favour of the .454 being an adequate bear defence round :)
 
Neo said:
A PH I've hunted with twice in Zimbabwe keeps a Freedom Arms .454 in the Land Rover for two reasons. #1 is the ease of carrying compared to his John Rigby .470 double when wandering off into the bushes for his morning constitutional. #2 is to deal with problem elephants that feel like messing with the Land Rover. While it's not a preferred way to deal with the situation, the couple of times it's escalated to that point, the result was a dead elephant.

Based on those results, I'm going to vote in favour of the .454 being an adequate bear defence round :)
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Now that is impressive!
 
Neo said:
A PH I've hunted with twice in Zimbabwe keeps a Freedom Arms .454 in the Land Rover for two reasons. #1 is the ease of carrying compared to his John Rigby .470 double when wandering off into the bushes for his morning constitutional. #2 is to deal with problem elephants that feel like messing with the Land Rover. While it's not a preferred way to deal with the situation, the couple of times it's escalated to that point, the result was a dead elephant.

Based on those results, I'm going to vote in favour of the .454 being an adequate bear defence round :)
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Ta-da! Folks should also check out the Handgun Hunting Records on heavy game. The Big 5 in Africa have been taken on numerous occasions by well practiced folks using .44 magnum handguns loaded with heavy lead boolits.
:)
 
According to this US forest service study for bullet performance at short range from 30 yr ago (this is actually the most comprehensive test of cartridge/bullet performance for bear defense I have ever seen) you should not use small bore magnums for bear defence. The different 300 win, 300 WBy, 8 mm rem mag with heavy for caliber bullets (180, 200, 220 gr) all scored worse than 30-06 and 308 win. The bullets from these magnums blew up in the test medium retaining about 30% of their weight vs 70%+ for 30-06 and 308 win with good expansion...
7 mm RM, 350 Rem Mag and 358 Norma mag did not fare much better either...
I know the bullets are better now, but I see people shooting magnums with cup and core bullets all the time (because it is cheaper).
And they tested premium bullets like 180 gr 30 cal partition - it failed at magnum velocities also @15 yr...l
http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf
 
popper said:
According to this US forest service study for bullet performance at short range from 30 yr ago (this is actually the most comprehensive test of cartridge/bullet performance for bear defense I have ever seen) you should not use small bore magnums for bear defence. The different 300 win, 300 WBy, 8 mm rem mag with heavy for caliber bullets (180, 200, 220 gr) all scored worse than 30-06 and 308 win. The bullets from these magnums blew up in the test medium retaining about 30% of their weight vs 70%+ for 30-06 and 308 win with good expansion...
7 mm RM, 350 Rem Mag and 358 Norma mag did not fare much better either...
I know the bullets are better now, but I see people shooting magnums with cup and core bullets all the time (because it is cheaper).
And they tested premium bullets like 180 gr 30 cal partition - it failed at magnum velocities also @15 yr...l
http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf
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That effing report is sssoooo out of date!
It has few premium bullets selected. Nor is there any heavy cast heavy bullets for the 44 Magnum and the 45-70.
No testing of the Classic Brenneke!
I don't think they tested the 348 or 358 Winchester or the 35 Whelen either??
Zero mention of the 215 gr bullet in the 303 Brit, etc.

Every time someone on CGN quotes it..............:puke:
 
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popper said:
According to this US forest service study for bullet performance at short range from 30 yr ago (this is actually the most comprehensive test of cartridge/bullet performance for bear defense I have ever seen) you should not use small bore magnums for bear defence.
http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf
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Popper, I raise my hat to you! That is exactly the kind of study I was wondering about in post #58.

It looks like my 9mm carbine did not make the cut... Oh well... I'm still going to assume that 10 rounds of 9mm JHP at close range (say, 125 gr @ 1400 ft/s, about 550 ft.lbs) should probably be sufficient to "discourage" a bear.
 
Brutus said:
That effing report is sssoooo out of date!
It has few premium bullets selected. Nor is there any heavy cast heavy bullets for the 44 Magnum and the 45-70.
No testing of the Classic Brenneke!
I don't think they tested the 348 or 358 Winchester or the 35 Whelen either??

Every time someone on CGN quotes it..............:puke:
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actually they tested the 200 gr 358 win load from Winchester and it scored better than the 358 Norma...
 
Brutus said:
Using that report is similar to drooling over the best weather day in Cleveland, summer of 1977. lol
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Actually I believe that this report is still quite relevant - the off the shelf ammo that most people use for their magnums is still mostly with cup&core bullets that I believe did not change that much in the last 30 years...
 
popper said:
Actually I believe that this report is still quite relevant - the off the shelf ammo that most people use for their magnums is still mostly with cup&core bullets that I believe did not change that much in the last 30 years...
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I beg to differ, too many premium bullets non-existant in this report.

This is a report from the state with all three species of bears and giant moose, and not a New Brunswick report.

We agree to disagree.
 
I see nothing wrong with a 308,306,44 mag, 444 marlin ,45-70, 450 marlin or 303 brit. 12ga. each one I would trust it more important having a caliber that is easy to find any wear so that culls the herd a bit leaving 45-70,30-06,308, 44mag,and 12 ga.
are there better calibers probably im no expert on modern ammo and bullets and reloading i need to be able to get what i need when i need it no matter where I am
after all im not going to pack reloading equipment with me or be in the city with nice big selection of ammo at a sports store
 
Pack sack gun - Browning '81 BLR take down in 450 Marlin.
The BLR has no lawyer safety junk and reassembles very quickly with the single snap of a lever.
It's box magazine fed so no loading ammo into a tube magazine.
I am familiar with my pack sack and put everything in the same place every time so if I need to get the gun out and operational I can do it quick without rummaging for stuff.
I can go from a walking carry with the pack sack on my back with the disassembled BLR in it to having a fully operational and loaded 450 Marlin BLR with a chambered round in less than 25 seconds - no BS.
 
I use the Buffalo Bore "heavy" 450 Marlin ammo that pushes a 430 grain hard cast (Brinell hardness 20+) lead flat nosed bullet to a ME of over 3500 ft-lbs.
If I shoot a bear and it doesn't fall down it's probably a "Smokey the Bear" billboard poster. ;)
 
I typically wouldn't choose a 22LR firearm for Grizzly but if it was all I had I'd use it.
Shoot it at the correct angle in the bears mouth (if it's open) or in the eye socket you have a dead bear on your hands.
 
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