Opinions on Best Long Range Rifle for Deer, Moose and Elk

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sir_springer said:
medvedqc...

Once, many years back, my partner and I topped at prairie ridge and spotted a whitetail buck crossing a stubble field below us, unaware of our presence. I moved down the hill about 40 yards, and went prone with my 25.06 on a Harris bipod. It was slowly walking, angling away slightly to the right. I figured it a stretch, held a foot over its back, led on his nose, and sent a 117 gr. Sierra Gameking. It seemed to buckle on its front shoulder, and then promptly hit for the tree-line. My partner yelled, you got 'em!!!

Short version, after two hours of tracking, I found it bedded, and finished the job.

The appearance of buckling on his front shoulder was because the bullet struck its rear leg just above the hock, and was still lodged in the offside hide, indicating how little energy it had left in it.

In the time it took for me to shoot and the bullet to arrive, walking slowly, the buck moved forward about five feet. The bullet dropped about three feet.

When I went back and paced it off, it took me 560 steps.

I swore then I'd never do something rash (and dumb as hell) like that ever again...and I haven't.

Military snipers train like hell, and keep a record of every single shot they ever take in practice. They know their weapon and its capabilities intimately, in every sense of the word. They look for a kill, but will settle for a hit, as the net effect is basically the same: Enemy down.

That's not the case with game animals.
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Snipers usually shoot at stationary (or nearly so) targets. Wasn't Cpl. Furlong's target setting up a MG? Also, a wound is actually better than a kill for those guys. If you're shooting gophers, you'll generally either kill or miss. Medium and big-game is too easy to wound. I guess if the animal is bedded down, or if a predator is eating a kill, the chances are pretty good they won't move, but it's still iffy.
 
Brian46 said:
I never suggested wounding and losing the animal, you are the one who continues to post that end to every scenario when long range hunting comes up.

Maybe this works for you and your skill set, however it is time to consider some peoples skills are above and beyond your comfort lever
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Was actually referring to someone (OP, et al) who are unpracticed and unsure... and what I said is; "sometimes" it is best not to choose to NOT shoot, "if" not every aspect is a green light... is that not something you agree with?
 
Papaclaude said:
Snipers usually shoot at stationary (or nearly so) targets. Wasn't Cpl. Furlong's target setting up a MG? Also, a wound is actually better than a kill for those guys. If you're shooting gophers, you'll generally either kill or miss. Medium and big-game is too easy to wound. I guess if the animal is bedded down, or if a predator is eating a kill, the chances are pretty good they won't move, but it's still iffy.
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never shot a bedded a animal.

cant tell for all armies training but never heard that story about wounding a target. i ve heard that story on the intraweb but never in my training ... there is some armies or oponents that do not care about their own wounded ... but we are really out of subject on that matter.
 
sir_springer said:
FWIW..

As one African PH and writer put it recently, shooting at game at such ranges isn't hunting, it's just killing. I've noticed that there's a marked increase in the realm of professional gun/hunting writers speaking out against this, as so they should, and good on them.

My first rule of hunting ethics is, if I can't reasonably assure a clean kill, I don't take the shot. IOW, I don't need to kill something so bad, I don't care if it's the next B&C world record, that I'm going to disrespect wildlife in such a manner.

I've had the experience of shooting a moose, twice, at about 60 yards with a 30.06, and a bull elk at about 50 yards with a 300 WM, in both instances the animal didn't even so much as flinch, to the extent that I thought I missed clean. Both finally toppled where they stood. Now, imagine trying to gauge a hit or miss at 800 yards.



What all those YouTube vids don't show are the ones that took one in the guts, and walked off into the timber, never to be seen again, except as grizzly bait. And how many actually traverse that 800 + yards of swamp/bog/canyon to check for blood? I suspect too few.

From everything I've ever read, I'd suggest that a great many African PHs, where 250 yards is generally considered a long shot, would not have any part of such "sport"...and I use that term loosely.

As if our heritage and tradition of hunting/shooting sports haven't taken enough of a hit over the last several decades, now we indulge in such nonsense that makes all of us look even more so like weekend warrior/sniper wannabes.

Shooting at targets/gongs at 1000 yards is one thing, and definitely implies skill.

Flinging lead at live animals at such ranges is entirely another.

IMHO.
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I couldn't agree more, While I agree some may be skilled shooters, its not hunting when your killing an animal from 7-800 yards!! If you want to challenge yourself to shooting at distances head to the range and shoot steel. At least your not running the risk of injuring an animal and losing it in the bush!
 
medvedqc said:
never shot a bedded a animal.

cant tell for all armies training but never heard that story about wounding a target. i ve heard that story on the intraweb but never in my training ... there is some armies or oponents that do not care about their own wounded ... but we are really out of subject on that matter.
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I was under the impression that the reason for not using expanding ammo, etc. was in order not to kill unnecessarily, that wounding was satisfactory. But I have never been in the Forces, so I'm only going by what I've heard and read - which is worth what it's worth. I don't think that if I were shooting at someone, unless it were to stop a threat in its tracks, that I would be overly worried about a humane kill, whereas with critters...
 
My advice would be to Take the 30'06 and put a Near rail on it and practice with it prone until you can hit a pie plate consistently at 1,000 yards then look at dumping a pile of cash into a true long range rig like a 338 calibre rifle.
That way while you are honing your long range skills you will be able to kill super well put up 500 yards and you may just find out that the '06 is all you ever needed anyway :)
Cat
 
catnthehatt said:
My advice would be to Take the 30'06 and put a Near rail on it and practice with it prone until you can hit a pie plate consistently at 1,000 yards then look at dumping a pile of cash into a true long range rig like a 338 calibre rifle.
That way while you are honing your long range skills you will be able to kill super well put up 500 yards and you may just find out that the '06 is all you ever needed anyway :)
Cat
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Sounds very sensible to me.
 
hoytcanon said:
Was actually referring to someone (OP, et al) who are unpracticed and unsure... and what I said is; "sometimes" it is best not to choose to NOT shoot, "if" not every aspect is a green light... is that not something you agree with?
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The OP wants a rifle he can eventually make the shots with after practicing, I agree more with what he has posted than those who talk down at others for doing something that is beyond the comfort zone/ability they set for themselves.
 
walleyed99 said:
I couldn't agree more, While I agree some may be skilled shooters, its not hunting when your killing an animal from 7-800 yards!! If you want to challenge yourself to shooting at distances head to the range and shoot steel. At least your not running the risk of injuring an animal and losing it in the bush!
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might as well give up hunting then because wounding an animal is a reality at any distance and I have seen many more wounded with long tracks from close range shots than those that are equipped to take game at long range if needed. You have time to get everything right at distance, at close range all bets are off even with the most seasoned hunters and how they react to that given scenario which is usually split second

Don't let my experiences get in your way of justifying your own ways of hunting as the best for everyone, that was not my intention
 
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sir_springer said:
medvedqc...

Once, many years back, my partner and I topped at prairie ridge and spotted a whitetail buck crossing a stubble field below us, unaware of our presence. I moved down the hill about 40 yards, and went prone with my 25.06 on a Harris bipod. It was slowly walking, angling away slightly to the right. I figured it a stretch, held a foot over its back, led on his nose, and sent a 117 gr. Sierra Gameking. It seemed to buckle on its front shoulder, and then promptly hit for the tree-line. My partner yelled, you got 'em!!!

Short version, after two hours of tracking, I found it bedded, and finished the job.

The appearance of buckling on his front shoulder was because the bullet struck its rear leg just above the hock, and was still lodged in the offside hide, indicating how little energy it had left in it.

In the time it took for me to shoot and the bullet to arrive, walking slowly, the buck moved forward about five feet. The bullet dropped about three feet.

When I went back and paced it off, it took me 560 steps.

I swore then I'd never do something rash (and dumb as hell) like that ever again...and I haven't.

Military snipers train like hell, and keep a record of every single shot they ever take in practice. They know their weapon and its capabilities intimately, in every sense of the word. They look for a kill, but will settle for a hit, as the net effect is basically the same: Enemy down.

That's not the case with game animals.
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This is excellent advice from experience.

Most shooters talk about and shoot groups. Fact is groups are only good for 4 things:
1. zeroing rifle
2. testing accuracy of rifle
3. working up a load
4. marksmanship fundamentals

Very few hunters spend any real amount of time on skills for movers/leading and shooting up/down angles. They tend to just guess instead of studying the specific and appropriate knowledge in these two areas and getting out and applying it.

REALLY GOOD long range hunters do exactly this, just like real snipers do, possibly even more so.

Any serious long range hunter I've met really knows his stuff. Little guess work involved.
 
1 MOA according to my rough calculations works out to 7.5 thou of an inch of muzzle movement horizontally or vertically on a 26" barrel and about 6.5 thou of an inch on a 22" barrel. At 1000 yards an MOA is about 10.5", approximately the same size as the kill zone of a white tail. If you aim dead center of the kill zone this leaves 1/2 an MOA for error or a 3.25 to 3.75 thou of an inch (depending on barrel length) at the muzzle of movement between a kill shot and a gut shot or an outright miss.

Please correct my math if I'm off but that is a very fine margin for error in a field condition.
 
Last couple mentions...

Had a brief conversation with a relatively young fella recently, telling me about how he wanted to rig a big rifle with a mother of all scopes for long range hunting. Didn't take long to evaluate his experience level, which was pretty much none. Finally said to him, "You ever do any shooting at 300 yards?" "Ummm...no." "Well, you might want to do that first. Trust me, that's tough enough."

Point being, lots of young hunters are entering the sport these days. Many with very little knowledge about firearm capabilities/ballistics. IMPRESSIONALBE young hunters, IMHO, full of too many wrong ideas about the sport.

Secondly, and let's not kid ourselves, a great deal of the promotion of long range hunting is about marketing products designed therefore. Thus, a whole lot of ###iness applied liberally...all else be damned.
 
There is an interesting thing about guys who get interested in the long range stuff that I've seen and experienced. Guys who get truly interested in connecting the dots, and making first round hits on distant targets, tend to shoot more than the average 'nobody should shoot an animal past 300 yards' crowd.

And I've yet to see anyone get to be a worse shot, after spending time popping primers, as long as they actually put their mind to it and think about what they are doing.

And as long as a guy actually tilries his rifle out at the distances that he wants to shoot under actual field conditions, he'll learn a few things. Like how much practice it actually takes to make reliable first round hits.

Its the guys who buy a "shooting system" and zero it at 100 yards and figure they are good to go out to 1000+ that irritate me.
We ran into a couple kids on the mountain a few years ago, one of whom had a Corlanes/Huskemaw system who missed a 10yr old ram a couple times at 200-ish yards, because he'd twisted his turret, and couldn't figure out how to get back to where it should be. His buddy on the other hand, pasted that big ram.

Point being, if you are actually going to use a rifle, and learn it, you'll learn when NOT to take a shot, regardless of distance....
Slobs however, are gonna be slobs no matter what the distance is....
 
huntingsask said:
After reading all of the posts, I was wondering if anyone has had a gun smith (located in Western Canada) build their long range rifle, and if so in what caliber and by who? Thanks
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I thought Rod at Corlanes does all your work and is building you a custom Rem 700 SPS. That is what you said. Something happen?
 
I'll chime in. Shoot f-class. You can get started for cheap, but cheap is relative. You'll need to reload. There s no way around it. So reloading stuff, brass, primers, bullets. Then you need a solid rifle And scope. Nice trigger, glass bedded action. Match grage barrel. Then lots of trigger time. Might want to get a practice rifle or two. I have one in 22lr. Great for wind reading At 100 or 200 yards. If you shoot fclass, shoot 308. Then you need the actual hunting rifle with match bbl and etc, and a solid rangefinder. get ready to pony up With your wallet. Or get a solid hunting rifle, save some money and get close. I've shot f-class out to 1,000 yards (900 meters) and I'm comfortable taking a 500 yard shot Max. I'd rather take a 50 or 100 yard shot though.
 
I'm no long range hunter but then a gen my stalking skills is extensional as well as my skills in the bush I take grate pride knowing I can hunt with any rifle and any caliber regardless how accurate ore inaccurate it is we grow up poor so had to learn to hunt with whatever
A poor rifle or poor caliber just mean you need to get up and personal with your supper
long range hunting to me just mean a lot of time at the range and added expense for ammo and your hunting rig
I would rather put the time in the bush hunting but admire guys that can shoot well at long rang but that not me
 
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