Opinions on Best Long Range Rifle for Deer, Moose and Elk

[Papaclaude]

Read that again. And one more time, just for luck.

Very few people out of the myriad of folks who buy a 300 RUM will ever learn to shoot it to its true potential. There are always a few of them on the EE for sale with less than 60 rounds through them, and for good reason. To a novice they look like a great idea, right up until they shoot them......


A) Bullets, not headstamps...
B) Energy rarely kills animals...Holes in important parts kills them fairly reliably though.
C) It doesn't take a 300 RUM to poke an appropriate bullet in an elks lungs at any range you'll be able to hit him...
D) You need to learn how to dial a turret. "Flat shooting" means less than nothing when it comes to reliably hitting targets at extended ranges.



Gunning RUM ammo at $100 per 20 rounds gets old fast... And finding a reliable lot of factory rounds that will do what you want will get pricey up front fast.... And by that, I mean finding a factory round with acceptable accuracy, and then buying every single box of it that you can get your hands on in the same manufacturing lot. Don't expect that just because you find a box it likes, that the next 20 round box of the same stuff 6 months down the road will shoot the same, or at least acceptably well enough so that you could reasonably expect to hit a thousand yard steel plate.......

Pretty much dead on. I would add that unless you are willing to put the bucks into tons of practice, your 300 RUM won't do anything your 308, 7-08 or similar gun won't do. Without an awful lot of practice, IMHO, it's unethical to try a shot at anything over 300 yards unless you know your gun inside and out. Just for kicks, if you haven't already done so, measure out 300 yards. It's a looong way. Out to 300, a 308, 6.5, 7-08 or such will do the trick just fine on just about any critter. If you do have the equipment and skills to shoot out out to 700-800, you also have to keep travel time to the target in mind. If the critter takes one step or 2 in the time between pulling the trigger and the bullet getting there, you're talking a gut-shot or seriously wounded critter that will die a slow, lingering death. Snipers don't have to worry about that, because a wounded enemy is pretty much as good as a dead one. Just food for thought.

Many moons ago, a friend of mine bought a BAR in 7mm Mag. He went on and on about how good it would be out to 1000 yards. SO I challenged him. I had an HK G3 that I knew inside and out. We went to a range and I took a piece of 4 X 4 Aspenite, and drew a 6" circle on it. He fired 5 shots out of his 4-12X scope. On the second piece, I had painted about a 12" circle, so I could see it, because my rifle had open sights. IIRC, my peep sights had a 100 and a 365 yd. aperture. Anyhow, he had about an 18" group, I had a 6" group. Guess whose critter would have been dead faster? I'm not a crackshot, but I practiced a lot back then.

You're a lot better off with a good, moderate caliber gun you can afford to shoot and that won't make you flinch than a 490 WhizBang that costs 20 bucks a round and will knock your fillings out. But, it's a free country, and do what you feel is best, I would just suggest you do it after weighing all the pro's and con's.

 

[huntingsask]

Thanks K45, I like the Huskemaw as well, but to be honest it is the only scope I have used that is considered a long range scope. I was researching Zeiss too and noticed that they provide turrets as well. Fortunately for me I do not suffer from buck fever and am very calm when I am shooting, I get the shakes only after the shot lol.

I will definitely give Zeiss and Sightron a serious look see! To me one of the most important issues is weight, I am even thinking of having my rifle custom built to keep it as light as possible. I do not want a tank for a rifle.

I have to say something here, I have Nightforce on my Desert tactical, sightron on my 338 lapua, Zeiss on a 338-378, leupolds on a few guns, bushnell on a couple, Huskemaw on my 280 Ai and 264. The 2 best brands of scopes for me are the Huskemaws and Nightforce, also they are very close for my eyes in all light conditions.

I use a G7-BR2 range finder as well for any elevation/angles that the turrets are not calibrated for - makes for an almost fool proof combo.

As for longe range calibers the 7,s and 300,s are where I would look, not many practice enough with the bigger calibers to us proficiently I.M.H.O.

I practice long range shots alot and shot a crap load of big game in my day but have never shot at animal past 500 yrds.

I have nothing against long range hunting if your well practiced and use good judgement , probably better than alot of so called hunters that get buck fever bad and just yank the trigger or others that try the hail marry running shot and blow the leg off or hit it in the azz.

 

[mbogo3]

I shot a trotting cow elk a couple years ago using a .300 RUM custom rifle from Corlanes Sports with a Huskamaw scope and 168gr bullets at 500 yards .My son shot his at 600 yards from the same herd.This was off a bench.The laser cut dials work well enough.Furthest I ever shot was a cow moose at 600 yards + hit her twice[heart/lung] with a .270 Win 130gr handload and a lowly 4x Leupold.Had 20 year old eyes then.....Best of the West edits their shows BTW as well to show the successes not the misses and multiple hits....outfitters do talk on other forums...Harold

 

[K45]

Thanks K45, I like the Huskemaw as well, but to be honest it is the only scope I have used that is considered a long range scope. I was researching Zeiss too and noticed that they provide turrets as well. Fortunately for me I do not suffer from buck fever and am very calm when I am shooting, I get the shakes only after the shot lol.

I will definitely give Zeiss and Sightron a serious look see! To me one of the most important issues is weight, I am even thinking of having my rifle custom built to keep it as light as possible. I do not want a tank for a rifle.

Yup a tank of a rifle sucks for hunting, believe me I have a few tanks. Great for the range but thats it.

As far as scopes look through a few field conditions, in the store or peoples opinions mean nothing for what YOUR eyes prefer. I like Huskemaw and the lazer etched retical, its nice to be able to see the numbers in case I forgot to dial back down. On my Nightforce I dial moa but have forgot a couple times to dial back down to the zero stop, that would have resulted in a potential miss for a close shot

The buck fever comment was for some of the experts that condem longe range hunting but more than likely have not shot much
and shake like a leaf trying to make their close range "ethical" shot. Alot of my buddies suffer from being able to shoot well on the bench to being hunting experts but put a live animal in front of them...........lol.

 

[DAJA]

Doesn't matter what range a person is hunting at the more you know about how your rig operates and how to actually operate it the better. However, the further out you go the more you really have to know well.

Many hunters get by not really having a clue how much of it works at all, "basically" zero at 200 and go. You can get away with A LOT within 200 meters/yards. Once you get up to 500 and up its an entirely different world. Cleanly killing an animal at 500 and up is more than doable but if you look at the men doing it they take the skill set and gear very seriously. Its not a point and shoot affair what so ever.

This trend of over gunning today is really weird to me. Countless hunters in my area going to 300 win mag. For the most part I can shoot circles around them all day long with my .308's, simply because I know my gear very well and put in the time. Mo'power works against you if you do not put in the time.

Two funny (one not so funny) hunter stories from last season:

#1. night before season opening my wife, little guy and I are driving on a dead end logging road not far from where we live. Eight guys are zeroing their rifles at an obviously paced off distance. (I knew the distance almost exactly because unknown to them I do lots of shooting there). As I watched them take turns zeroing couldn't help but notice everyone of them were doing all zeroing standing up with no support at all and several obviously had a few too many. Swaying in the breeze doesn't begin to describe it. Like I said, you can get away with a lot shooting at a large animal within 200.

#2. a few days into the season a neighbor introduces me to a guy. We are chatting about how his hunting has been going so far. Says he bought a new 300 win mag for the season but thinks there is something wrong with the rifle as is going to sell it. Of course I ask why? Says he saw a bull moose only about 70 yards away. He unloads the entire gun on it and didn't hit it !! Wait .... 70 yards, dump mag and no hits wtf? Well, I THINK one round MIGHT have hit, sun was getting low. Said he goes back next morning just incase and finds the moose not far away still alive and suffering, shoots it in the head.

Said can't believe he bought such a POS rifle. Ask if he minds if I look at it, goes and gets rifle. Well, let me put it this way..... the barrel was pointing one way and the scope was pointing somewhere left and more than a little canted.

I tell ya man, just about hit him with the butt of his own rifle.

So, I go into a detailed explanation of how to properly mount a scope, how to properly level it, what increments his turrets were and what that means, how to set up a good zero and why etc. etc...... oh man, had no idea there was so much to this ...

Yeah no kidding idiot.

Not trying to be too preachy, just backing up what the obviously experienced guys are saying about long range hunting, knowing your rig and over powering.

Stick to a common caliber like .308, keep your shots within say 200 and really learn your rig. Once you feel confident move out from there. You will be glad you didn't just jump into higher calibers and longer ranges. Its also the right thing to do when it comes to hunting.

 

[Dogleg]

By the way I am curious, what caliber did you kill that Giraffe with and at how many yards?

I used a CZ .375 H&H with a 300 grain TSX in the pipe and 300 grain flat-point banded solids in the mag. After quizzing up everyone I could find about the unusual position of the heart and lungs for a year, I ended up popping it at the base of the neck because everything else was screened by thorn bushes. Shot was maybe 50 yards tops, and I shot the bull out of a group of cows. It looked like a crane falling over.

 

[huntingsask]

Thank you for all of the rifle and scope related ideas guys. Gave me some great ideas, I have been researching this for a while and can't wait to make the purchase, even though I have not decided what the scope and rifle combo will be yet.

Looked like a crane falling over, lol good one and congrats again!

 

[Slooshark1]

I think you should go with a. 300 Win Mag in a new Winchester Model 70. .300 RUM would be my personal choice, but I reload and the RUM is only good if you reload. It's way to expensive to shoot factory ammo. .300 Win Mag is tried and tested and ammo is affordable and available at any corner store. Put good glass on it and practice a lot. Save your empties because you might get into reloading at some point or find someone who does.

 

[.284]

My 2c which would be worthless now if paying with cash.

First, you have to reload. For what you want to do that's the only option for obvious reasons already mentioned.

Follow the advice already given to pick the bullet first then see how fast you need to launch to it to keep at least 1800 fps at 1000 yards and preferably 2000fps. You'll now see that your likely looking at a 7mm or bigger 30 cal unless you want to jump up to a lapua mag. A 6.5 may do but I'd leave it out to opt for heavier bullets based on the game your interested in hunting.

Next, open your wallet really wide, there is more than just a scope and rifle required for this task - reloading set up - dies - brass - bullets - powder - chronograph - spotting scope - range finder - kestrel with Shooting solutions( personal recommendation) - a level- a way to measure angles for uphill/downhill shooting - gunsmith fees and all the parts for a build as I wouldn't recommend setting out on a venture this expensive with a factory set up. Get a brake with a thread protector incase you really don't like it but with the trigger you'll need to put in I think your gonna appreciate it.

You mentioned you wanted to keep things as light as possible but I wouldn't bank on a rifle much under 9 lbs without a scope. I never have used a huskemaw and don't plan on it so I can't bash them but I can say that nightforce works and they are robust enough to last. If your rifle is already going to weigh around 9 lbs plus a bipod I don't think it's worth skimping 6-8 oz on a scope- just get a nightforce.

Forget about the distance engraved turrets. If this is your "one" gun it's going to travel through many different temperatures and air densities which is why I recommended a kestrel with either applied ballistics or Horus since you need first round hits. Those turrets labelled with distances are not gonna cut it past 5 or 6 hundred as seasons and hunting areas change.

1000 yards is a tall order for hunting. I regularly practice far beyond that but would not entertain the idea of taking an animal at that range as I know how misread winds can play out. It's relatively easy to correct for missed wind calls if you get more lead in the air while the conditions are the same but that's not hunting.

I see the 300 rum mentioned a few times. I wouldn't consider it a good choice as mag lengths and ejection ports can limit your options when loading for optimal accuracy. Consider a 300 mag with the throat reamed out for the bullet of your choice or a 7-300 wm, 7 lrm, a lapua or a 30-338 lapua

Also realize that it is possible to accomplish your goal but understand it is very likely years away to do it proficiently and consistently. A lot of things have to be perfect for a 1000 yard hunting shot so practice further and be very happy when you consider yourself completely confident at 6-700 yards in most conditions.

 

[rommelrommel]

I would build a 338, way better bullet selection than 30 cal. I am also a member of the anything but huskamaw club... either spend less money and get something just as good or spend the same money and get a zeiss, kahles, swarovski,etc...

 

[hoytcanon]

I would build a 338, way better bullet selection than 30 cal.

I don't think there is a better selection of .338 bullets compared to .30 cal bullets... not any place I shop... Hornady lists five pages of .30 cal bullet options compared to two pages of .338 bullets.

 

[quarterman]

Of the 30 Cals. you mentioned which would you pick if you only had one choice? Thanks

If you are willing to carry a heavier rifle, the 300Rum is my shoice, very flat shooting, and carries lots of energy at long distances. Brass and factory ammo is easy to obtain. I use 200 grain sierra game kings which are traveling 3175 FPS. The down side to this rifle is that at 10.5 pounds, it gets to be a bit of a burden to carry when sheep or goat hunting and In a lighter rifle they are not alot of fun to shoot.

In a light weight rifle I prefer the 300 WSM. It is much nicer to pack when goat and sheep hunting, ammo is cheap and brass is easy to obtain. It is alot more pleasent to shoot in a light rifle. ( a 308 norma or 300WM would be about the same)

I still use both, and really like both cartridges. It really depends how heavy of a package you want to carry and how much recoil you are comfortable with.

 

[BongoBob]

I'm being serious here...why the need for a 1000 yard shot? Can't you (or why don't you want to) sneak/stalk up closer to an animal? Last year we spotted a heard of elk at 1200 yrds, snuck up to 250 yrds and popped one...that's half the fun of hunting to me.

 

[Brian46]

I have to say something here, I have Nightforce on my Desert tactical, sightron on my 338 lapua, Zeiss on a 338-378, leupolds on a few guns, bushnell on a couple, Huskemaw on my 280 Ai and 264. The 2 best brands of scopes for me are the Huskemaws and Nightforce, also they are very close for my eyes in all light conditions.

which model zeiss? because they are not all created equal

That being said, I have a number of different scopes and Huskemaw does not make the list when it comes to the bigger calibers/long range, The clarity when compared to Hensoldt/Zeiss or S&B is just not there. If you like having the turret custom made for your rifle and load that is fine, Huskemaw is not the only option is all I was getting at

 

[Brian46]

I'm being serious here...why the need for a 1000 yard shot? Can't you (or why don't you want to) sneak/stalk up closer to an animal? Last year we spotted a heard of elk at 1200 yrds, snuck up to 250 yrds and popped one...that's half the fun of hunting to me.

the animal does not always give yo the opportunity to get closer

 

[.284]

A custom turret is not fine for any long range shooting except the exact conditions for which it is set up unless long range for you is 5-600 yards. Colder temps will most likely reduce muzzle velocity and definitely increase air density and the two combined will result in low hits.

Start a log book of varying conditions at 1000 yard practice sessions and compare how much elevation was needed over the different conditions.

I ran some numbers for a 6.5 140 Berger I use and changing temps from 25c to -5c and muzzle velocity reduced 15 fps and a pressure change of about 1 inch of mercury needed just over 1 moa more elevation. That's over 10 inches and that bullet has a high bc compared to most and my muzzle velocity is quite high to start with so its likely that most other choices would drop a fair amount more.

 

[carverk]

Black Goose will be bringing in nosler M48 rifle in 26 nosler and 28 nosler both look interesting but there is a piece to pay nothing is free both have short barrel life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=371xunXjGmQ

http://www.fox23.com/videos/sports/new-rifle-and-cartridge-26-nosler-cartridge-and/vCmbg7/

 

[hoytcanon]

the animal does not always give yo the opportunity to get closer

Then don't shoot... NOT squeezing the trigger is sometimes the responsible choice... and there is always another day... and even if there were never another opportunity to take that particular animal or species, the memory of almost getting the shot should be far more pleasant than the memory of wounding and losing a fine animal.

 

[stubblejumper]

Pick a rifle chambered in a cartridge that will provide adequate velocity to properly expand a suitable hunting bullet at any range that you will shoot at an animal. Choose a cartridge that you are willing to spend the time shooting hundreds of rounds per year, practicing at any distance that you would consider shooting at a big game animal, because unless you are willing to commit the time and expense to practice long range shooting regularly, you will never be able to develop and maintain the shooting skills to accurately place bullets in the kill zone at long range. Even the best rifle, with the best optics, and the best handloads are worthless, if the shooter doesn't have the skills to use them to their potential, and probably more than 95% of hunters do not possess those skills.

 

[freddyfour]

Then don't shoot... NOT squeezing the trigger is sometimes the responsible choice... and there is always another day... and even if there were never another opportunity to take that particular animal or species, the memory of almost getting the shot should be far more pleasant than the memory of wounding and loosing a fine animal.

Some good sentiment there