Prohibited possibly restricted?

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pypes

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A recent "public service announcement" in the prohibited section got me to measure my 4" barrelled S&W revolvers. All were close but one was definitely over by my calculations measuring in at 105.03mm's.
My method was to insert the appropriate sized feeler gauge into the cylinder gap and then insert a vernier caliper down the barrel until it made contact with the highest point on the crown. To the resultant measurement I added the thickness of the feeler gauge and arrived at 4.135 inches. Can anyone who has had a prohib reclassed to restricted advise if my measuring method is sound?
 
pypes said:
A recent "public service announcement" in the prohibited section got me to measure my 4" barrelled S&W revolvers. All were close but one was definitely over by my calculations measuring in at 105.03mm's.
My method was to insert the appropriate sized feeler gauge into the cylinder gap and then insert a vernier caliper down the barrel until it made contact with the highest point on the crown. To the resultant measurement I added the thickness of the feeler gauge and arrived at 4.135 inches. Can anyone who has had a prohib reclassed to restricted advise if my measuring method is sound?
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So why are you adding the thickness of the feeler gauge?:confused:
 
So why use a feeler gauge? Free wheel the cylinder such that your measurement device butts up against the cylinder between chambers.

M
 
proper measurement is from the face of the forcing cone to the highest point of muzzle crown for the purpose of establishing if it is prohib or not. And if you wish to reclassify it they will probably not accept the remeasure unless it is done by a registered verifier/smith.
 
I was just going on the assumption, that if the barrel were removed from the frame, then that piece would be measured from end to end and that's the length of the barrel.
When installed on the frame, it doesn't change size. I know our gun laws don't make sense, but the length of a revolver barrel, is the length of a revolver barrel.
 
Cocked&Locked said:
And if you wish to reclassify it they will probably not accept the remeasure unless it is done by a registered verifier/smith.
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I believe, but am not sure, that the verifier could be an officer with the local police service? An LEO working in the Firearms section of a neighbouring jurisdiction steadfastly stated the measurement included the cylinder gap. If this was his interpretation and he was sent out to verify on behalf of the RCMP, it favoured the applicant living in his city for sure. And when you're dealing with a reclassification coming down to thousandths of an inch, it can make a difference on the method adopted for taking the measurement. Which brings us full circle to: Has anyone attempted to reclassify their revolver and sat and watched while a verifier took the measurement? How was it ascertained?
 
Yes, you'll need a verifier to make it official. I've used one couple of times--the CFC can probably tell you the ones in your area.
 
Criminal Code Part III Section 84(2)(a) defines barrel length for a revolver:

The distance from the muzzle of the barrel to the breach end immediately in front of the cylinder.

Why would thin air be counted as barrel material?
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I don't know; why is a revolver the only firearm whose barrel measurement doesn't include the chamber*? Breech end implies the forcing cone side of the gap, and front of cylinder the other side. What to do?

I have seen the measurement taken, and it is done simply by turning the cylinder in between holes to use its face to stop your measuring rod. However, this was not a case of 0,03mm making the difference!

Note that there is a small amount of front-to-back play in the cylinder (and more can be induced). A conscientious Verifier wouldn't likely pass a gun which was ever-so-slightly Prohib in one position, and barely not in the other. Prepare for a fight…

*Answer: So they could Prohibit most of the police revolvers in existence.
 
You can't separate the chamber from the barrel on a semi, then put it back on.
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You can't do it physically. But you could certainly do it mathematically.

I guess we should be thankful that they don't.
 
pypes said:
I believe, but am not sure, that the verifier could be an officer with the local police service? An LEO working in the Firearms section of a neighbouring jurisdiction steadfastly stated the measurement included the cylinder gap. If this was his interpretation and he was sent out to verify on behalf of the RCMP, it favoured the applicant living in his city for sure. And when you're dealing with a reclassification coming down to thousandths of an inch, it can make a difference on the method adopted for taking the measurement. Which brings us full circle to: Has anyone attempted to reclassify their revolver and sat and watched while a verifier took the measurement? How was it ascertained?
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I am a verifier.
 
red_bailey said:
Criminal Code Part III Section 84(2)(a) defines barrel length for a revolver:

The distance from the muzzle of the barrel to the breach end immediately in front of the cylinder.



I don't know; why is a revolver the only firearm whose barrel measurement doesn't include the chamber*? Breech end implies the forcing cone side of the gap, and front of cylinder the other side. What to do?

I have seen the measurement taken, and it is done simply by turning the cylinder in between holes to use its face to stop your measuring rod. However, this was not a case of 0,03mm making the difference!

Note that there is a small amount of front-to-back play in the cylinder (and more can be induced). A conscientious Verifier wouldn't likely pass a gun which was ever-so-slightly Prohib in one position, and barely not in the other. Prepare for a fight…

*Answer: So they could Prohibit most of the police revolvers in existence.
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this, and it removed the bulk of modern revolvers. Most at the time where 4" or less. 6 inch was mostly a target shooters length. It was just another way of removing the maximum number of previously legal firearms with the minimum effort.

When i did verifier training many moons ago, I was taught by the trainer to measure with a digital caliper down the barrel to a flat steel rule held across the mouth of the forcing cone, and most emphatically NOT laying on the cylinder. Or, with one jaw on the muzzle, the other on the breech end of the barrel. Both methods do not include the cylinder gap. Yes, it's BS....it should go to the action face, the same as a semi.
 
red_bailey said:
I have seen the measurement taken, and it is done simply by turning the cylinder in between holes to use its face to stop your measuring rod.
Click to expand...
Cocked&Locked said:
When i did verifier training many moons ago, I was taught by the trainer to measure with a digital caliper down the barrel to a flat steel rule held across the mouth of the forcing cone, and most emphatically NOT laying on the cylinder.
Click to expand...
I spoke with that police verifier again and he reiterated his interpretation that the measurement includes the cylinder gap, as stated by red_bailey. He went on to say that he verified many revolvers during the course of his duties and always measured them as described by Cocked&Locked? It is my belief that some verifiers no doubt use the method described by red_bailey and regardless of which method is used, the result is clear cut either way. I also believe that in some rare cases, like mine, the measurement straddles the line between 4.133" (prohibited) and 4.134" (restricted). I don't have the money or desire to take on that fight...
 
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