Starter shotgun?

canvasback said:
As has been pointed out in previous posts, it's false logic. Recoil has nothing specifically to do with gauge.....it is the relationship between the weight of the gun, the weight of the load and speed that load is accelerated to by the charge. The gauge of the gun doesn't matter, nor does the size of the shot. If you want to reduce recoil, choose a heavier gun and choose shotshells that have relatively small weights of powder (1 oz or less) sending the shot out of the gun relatively slowly ( 1150 fps, not 1450 fps).

Semis were suggested because they add a component to the recoil equation in that they use some of the recoil in cycling the shells, so you don't feel it. But the physics of recoil are inescapable. The force goes somewhere.

I shoot Winchester AA low noise low recoil target loads out of a single barrel 12 gauge that only weights five pounds. FYI a 6 pound 12 gauge is considered extremely light. A 5 pound 12 gauge is unheard of. I barely even feel those loads out of that gun, shooting targets in the middle of the summer with just a shirt on. And by that I mean shooting between 25 and 75 rounds during an outing.

Your introduction to shotgunning has caused you to obsess ( forgive the term) over an issue that isn't. Buy a typical pump in 12 gauge. It will weigh around 7 pounds. Shoot light target 12 gauge loads that are cheap and plentiful and you will never be concerned about recoil.
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I believe canvasback intended to write "smaller weights of shot" (one ounce or less) rather than smaller weights of powder(one ounce or less).
By the way powder charges are usually expressed as "dram equivalent"........the higher the dram equivalent, the greater the velocity and normally, the greater the recoil......To start, try to stay away from 3 dram loads....look for say 2 3/4 dram loads.
 
canvasback said:
As has been pointed out in previous posts, it's false logic. Recoil has nothing specifically to do with gauge.....it is the relationship between the weight of the gun, the weight of the load and speed that load is accelerated to by the charge. The gauge of the gun doesn't matter, nor does the size of the shot. If you want to reduce recoil, choose a heavier gun and choose shotshells that have relatively small weights of powder (1 oz or less) sending the shot out of the gun relatively slowly ( 1150 fps, not 1450 fps).


Semis were suggested because they add a component to the recoil equation in that they use some of the recoil in cycling the shells, so you don't feel it. But the physics of recoil are inescapable. The force goes somewhere.

I shoot Winchester AA low noise low recoil target loads out of a single barrel 12 gauge that only weights five pounds. FYI a 6 pound 12 gauge is considered extremely light. A 5 pound 12 gauge is unheard of. I barely even feel those loads out of that gun, shooting targets in the middle of the summer with just a shirt on. And by that I mean shooting between 25 and 75 rounds during an outing.

Your introduction to shotgunning has caused you to obsess ( forgive the term) over an issue that isn't. Buy a typical pump in 12 gauge. It will weigh around 7 pounds. Shoot light target 12 gauge loads that are cheap and plentiful and you will never be concerned about recoil.
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Thanks Canvasback, what do you think of the 12ga or 20ga Maverick 88 Security as an affordable starter to experiment with?
 
Pete G said:
I believe canvasback intended to write "smaller weights of shot" (one ounce or less) rather than smaller weights of powder(one ounce or less).
By the way powder charges are usually expressed as "dram equivalent"........the higher the dram equivalent, the greater the velocity and normally, the greater the recoil......To start, try to stay away from 3 dram loads....look for say 2 3/4 dram loads.
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Thanks Pete, I would love to try all the options you wonderful people have suggested, however I'm currently limited to what the club will provide as my licence is still in process. Going on 6 weeks now. :(
 
A Maverick 88 Security? 18.5" barrel and no choke - why?

Pick an 870 Express in either 12 or 20, or a Mossberg 500 in 12 or 20. Done.
 
Grouse Man said:
A Maverick 88 Security? 18.5" barrel and no choke - why?

Pick an 870 Express in either 12 or 20, or a Mossberg 500 in 12 or 20. Done.
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As a fellow newb in this area figuring out the minimum kit to play-
Would you guys not prefer a (guessing here) wingmaster with a mid bead sight, auto's over pumps?
Or does it not matter?
 
Grasshopper - Lose the Maverick, for the reasons stated above. For rookies, go with a pump - less things to go wrong with compared to a semi. A mid bead is a very minor consideration, and an Express is just as functional as a Wingmaster.
OK - its been 10 pages of posts, time to literally "pull the trigger"
 
Why have we bothered answering your questions about shot charge weight, shot size, chokes, gun weight, recoil, pump vs semi, etc.?

Just go to the tacticool shotguns section and ask them what to get.
 
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Even if the O.P. has been seduced by the dark-side this thread has been most helpful to the rest of us Padawan learners. :)

So the value of a mid-bead is overstated?
 
Grouse Man said:
Why have we bothered answering your questions about shot charge weight, shot size, chokes, gun weight, recoil, pump vs semi, etc.?

Just go to the tacticool shotguns section and ask them what to get.
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Sorry, didn't mean to offend anyone, just didn't know barrel length was a touchy point. I truly appreciate all the good advice and have learned a lot about shotgun ammunition to use in the past few day from you good people.

I'm still on the same shotgun(12 or 20 pump from Mossberg or Remington) and use(target/clays), was just excited to see a shorter barrel on the same thing.
 
Grouse Man said:
Why have we bothered answering your questions about shot charge weight, shot size, chokes, gun weight, recoil, pump vs semi, etc.?

Just go to the tacticool shotguns section and ask them what to get.
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Are you implying that the black and green crowd don't consider or pay attention to those things?
 
No, because of the OP's comment saying he wanted it because it looked cool, and it was a black/green shotgun.

But I'm pretty sure those guys aren't worried about recoil, are they?
 
Well, I'm sure the hunting and trap community also think the guns they own/buy look cool as well.
My experience is that recoil, weight, shot size and even choke systems are all important features that the black and green guys look at.
 
guitarman, I didn't mean my comment in a disparaging way. From my understanding, his first shotgunning experience was with buckshot and found the recoil too much. He asked this on the 'sporting shotguns' forum, not the black/green shotguns forum. So, we guided him and informed him about all those subjects w.r.t. sporting guns, thinking he was going to make an informed choice. Instead, he says he likes a gun because it looks cool. Black or blue & wood makes no difference. If he said he wanted to buy a BT-99 trap gun because it looks cool I'd be equally disappointed.

amolkapoor, you have more than enough information now. Let us know what you buy.
 
Grouse Man said:
guitarman, I didn't mean my comment in a disparaging way. From my understanding, his first shotgunning experience was with buckshot and found the recoil too much. He asked this on the 'sporting shotguns' forum, not the black/green shotguns forum. So, we guided him and informed him about all those subjects w.r.t. sporting guns, thinking he was going to make an informed choice. Instead, he says he likes a gun because it looks cool. Black or blue & wood makes no difference. If he said he wanted to buy a BT-99 trap gun because it looks cool I'd be equally disappointed.

amolkapoor, you have more than enough information now. Let us know what you buy.
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Will do sir, I don't understand what the issue is here, maybe there are camps/groups on here that I don't know about and have offended somehow with a silly comment. I'm still new, so please excuse my ignorance.
I just meant that I liked the idea of a smaller shotgun versus a long one, and am still learning, so didn't think about the choke part as related to accuracy or clay or target shooting, even though I had learned that in the safety course.
 
amolkapoor said:
No intelligent reason, just looks cooler with a shorter barrel :p
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You are correct, there isn't an intelligent reason for following this entire thread, and then choosing a shotgun because it looks cool, even though it is totally unsuitable for most applications that people choose shotguns for.
 
stubblejumper said:
You are correct, there isn't an intelligent reason for following this entire thread, and then choosing a shotgun because it looks cool, even though it is totally unsuitable for most applications that people choose shotguns for.
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Oh my god, calm down please, o jumper of stubbles! :p
Just asking questions here to increase my knowledge, I'm sure I didn't spit in anyone's face or steal their money. Jeez!

And I honestly don't know about the degree of difference in accuracy or range or whatever with different kind of barrel lengths, so just asked what Grouse Man thought of the Maverick, and when he didn't like my question, I apologized to him, twice, as he was politely helping me out so far and I didn't understand what I had done to upset him. I'm sure a lot of people get attracted by stuff that looks interesting, I can't be the only one on the planet. :)
 
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davesaudio said:
As a fellow newb in this area figuring out the minimum kit to play-
Would you guys not prefer a (guessing here) wingmaster with a mid bead sight, auto's over pumps?
Or does it not matter?
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Mid bead is far from a requirement in fact it is not even a consideration when I choose a shotgun. Wingmaster is a very good choice. It is more than just a step up in cost compared to an Express or Mossberg, but many new comers aren't eager to drop that much coin for a pump. Not that an Express or Mossberg won't give years of yoemans service, I'll always have at least one beater express as a loaner or extreme conditions gun.
Auto's are a benefit for the clays games, but are not a requirement. Talking new guns only here a high quality pump will cost less then a similar quality semi.
For hunting to me pump or semi does not matter, and clays aren't much different, provided a gun fits me well I can miss doubles almost as fast with either. The only times I see or focus on the bead is shooting stationary or slow moving targets, such as a turkey or finishing off crippled waterfowl.

Amolkapoor, I very much doubt anyone is actually upset. Just disappointed to give you all this advice trying to steer you towards a practical field gun. Yes, the short barreled security options look fun but a short barrel and fixed cylinder choke is not very versatile. A longer barrel is easier to swing smoothly an often forgotten aspect of shooting effectively at moving targets. A field gun will also shoot buckshot and rifled slugs if needed.
The maverick shotgun itself is not a bad choice either. I'm not sure if it is still available there used to be one with both a field barrel and security barrel. That may satisfy your urge to have a short cool looking gun and a field gun. I have owned both and have since parted with all but 1 of my short barreled shotguns. I kept the rifle sighted slug barrel because it does have a benefit.
 
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