I've decided its time for a new lever action and its time for a big bore. I've been looking at the 450 marlin and 444 marlin for a few years now but I thought it might be worth looking at the 45-70 too. Of the 3 I have shot a 45-70 a fair bit and like it, but it is more common and I like things that are a little different. Both the 450 and 444 will do the same job as the 45-70 and ammunition seems to cost about the same for all 3, I will be reloading for which ever one I choose so long term ammo costs are not a big deal to me. The rifle will see use on everything from white tails to moose. So far I have looked at the browning BLR and Winchester 94 take down in 450 marlin, I handled and shot my friends 45-70 in a marlin, have found a 444 marlin to fondle yet. Who on here uses these 3 cartridges? what do you like and dislike about them? What rifle is yours chambered in and how do you find it accuracy wise? How have they performed on game for you?
450 marlin vs 444 marlin vs 45-70
- Thread starter quarterman
- Start date
I had a 444 but unless you get a fast twist one, you are limited to the bullets you can use. Microgroove barrels don't like cast bullets generally. The one I had had a 1:38" twist, so 265gr bullets were about its limit. Hornady is not making the 265gr .429" bullet anymore, so I sold it. If you do get a .444, make sure it has a 1:20" twist and ballard rifling.
The 45/70 was the easiest of the three to load for. (getting components) and achieving consistently good accuracy.
I owned a 450 marlin for 1 year, and found it too expensive to shoot. (getting brass was hard, and factory ammo was expensive .......................if you can find it) I ended up sticking with the 45/70 so I could use the big-ol' cast bullets.
The 45/70 was the easiest of the three to load for. (getting components) and achieving consistently good accuracy.
I owned a 450 marlin for 1 year, and found it too expensive to shoot. (getting brass was hard, and factory ammo was expensive .......................if you can find it) I ended up sticking with the 45/70 so I could use the big-ol' cast bullets.
I am amazed at the accuracy of my .444 in the marlin lever rifle.
Shooting 300 grain cast at 100 yards with open sights it's not a problem staying in a 4 inch circle.
I am positive with a scope I could do a lot better but I don't bat for that team.
Shooting 300 grain cast at 100 yards with open sights it's not a problem staying in a 4 inch circle.
I am positive with a scope I could do a lot better but I don't bat for that team.
If you relapd I would definitely go 45-70. However factory loads are mild in deference to some weaken actions out there. The 444 is a step up performance wise especially with factory 165 gr sp. The 450 marlin will roughly provide the the performance of 45-7- hot reloads with factory ammo. Finding this ammo seems to be a chore but it may be more readily available in some areas than others. I reload so it is the 45-70 but the 444 is no slouch with factory offerings and should yield the same results.
Neil
Neil
I had the 450 but was not using it at the time so got rid of it but then regretted it after HAAHAA
So I picked up a 444 it is a grate round but my baby brother is just getting his PAL so he is getting it so it looks like the next one will be 45-70 funny how it works lol
So I picked up a 444 it is a grate round but my baby brother is just getting his PAL so he is getting it so it looks like the next one will be 45-70 funny how it works lol
458x2" American would be a good round but it would take some work to acquire a gun in it. Basically a 450 marlin that can be made from any belt magnum case. I am sure a gunsmith could take a rifle in 450 marlin and install a ring in the chamber to make belted magnum brass headspace correctly.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
IIRC, there is a slight difference in case length too. Which one is shorter or longer?? I'm not sure about that one.
One has to remember, the 458x2inch American is truly a wildcat. There are at least two different chamber spec's for this one cartridge.
I don't use any of them these days, but my feeling was sorta this":
If you handload- 45-70. You can do whatever you want with the handloaded 45/70
444? Decent choice for those that don't handload, but it seems most people and factories cripple it with pistol bullets
.450- Higher end handloaded performace with factory ammo. Can handload to do anything the 45/70 does.
Me as a handloader would always pick the 45/70, but nothing wrong with the others.
If you handload- 45-70. You can do whatever you want with the handloaded 45/70
444? Decent choice for those that don't handload, but it seems most people and factories cripple it with pistol bullets
.450- Higher end handloaded performace with factory ammo. Can handload to do anything the 45/70 does.
Me as a handloader would always pick the 45/70, but nothing wrong with the others.
Didn't know that, but if a 7Rm can chamber, won't it just rattle down the bore? Like someone shooting a .270 in a 30-06?
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
A nice little point for someone who has the 458x2inch American rifle and RCBS conversion dies.
One can convert any H&H based magnum case, to your 458x2 case. Tons of these discards at any rifle range.
One can convert any H&H based magnum case, to your 458x2 case. Tons of these discards at any rifle range.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Yes sir, hence my possible comment. These words keep the legal departments happy mostly.
Cheers!
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IMHO, the .45/70 and the .450 Marlin offer comparable performance, and both are at their best and most versatile when handloaded. You wouldn't expect shooting factory .458 Winchester to be inexpensive, and the same goes for it's shorter brothers. The .444 is restricted in terms of bullet weight, but I suppose you could contact a custom bullet mould outfit and get them to make you a mould for a gas checked 400 gr .430" WFN.
sgtrock, for many years I was under the impression that microgroove rifling was undesirable for cast bullet shooting, and came to this conclusion from attempting it with my first generation of the reintroduced 1895 Marlin. But according to Veral Smith, owner of Lead Bullet Technology, Marlin's Microgroove is one of the best rifling styles for cast bullet shooting, and uses the very accurate Marlin rimfire barrels as evidence. When I came across that, I wished I had that .45/70 back so I could explore his theory in greater depth.
sgtrock, for many years I was under the impression that microgroove rifling was undesirable for cast bullet shooting, and came to this conclusion from attempting it with my first generation of the reintroduced 1895 Marlin. But according to Veral Smith, owner of Lead Bullet Technology, Marlin's Microgroove is one of the best rifling styles for cast bullet shooting, and uses the very accurate Marlin rimfire barrels as evidence. When I came across that, I wished I had that .45/70 back so I could explore his theory in greater depth.
Northern Amateur
CGN frequent flyer
I have both 45/70 and 450 Marlin. I do not reload at the moment. The 450 Marlin is my go to hunting rifle. I stock pile ammo when I can find it though. Factory performance of the 450 is awesome. However, if getting one or the other and you plan on reloading - 45/70 would be my recommendation. Lots of ammo available and yes, it can be reloaded to hotter performance levels.
I managed to get some of these buffalo bore loads a few years ago, a lot of the loading tables I have seen, this is as close to maximum muzzle energy as possible.
45-70 Magnum - Lever Gun Ammo - 300 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point (2,350 fps/M.E. 3,678 ft. lbs.)
The heavier bullets at slower speeds are close, but a little less ME.
Conversely, the same company's 444 offering is - Heavy .444 Marlin Ammo - 300 gr. J.F.N.-(2,150fps/M.E.3,078 ft.lbs.)
45-70 Magnum - Lever Gun Ammo - 300 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point (2,350 fps/M.E. 3,678 ft. lbs.)
The heavier bullets at slower speeds are close, but a little less ME.
Conversely, the same company's 444 offering is - Heavy .444 Marlin Ammo - 300 gr. J.F.N.-(2,150fps/M.E.3,078 ft.lbs.)
Sure it will.
But that takes thinking to figure out. On here people are programmed to make sure the head stamp calibre is the same as what is rolled onto the barrel, because if it is different the gun will blow up in their face.
The .450 Marlin is basically a rimless .45-70. Pretty much the same ballistics. The .458 x 2" American is a shortened .458 Win. Similar to but not the same as the .450. Likely just as difficult top find ammo and/or brass for either.
The .444 Marlin is a critter unto itself. It's kind of a .44 Supermag. Uses the same .429" bullet at roughly 2400 FPS. It won't be in small places either.
I'd go with the .45-70. You very likely won't find ether in small places. You'll probably find .45-70, but it'll be typical somewhat anemic factory stuff. Loaded down for Trap Doors, but at least it'll likely be there.
The .444 Marlin is a critter unto itself. It's kind of a .44 Supermag. Uses the same .429" bullet at roughly 2400 FPS. It won't be in small places either.
I'd go with the .45-70. You very likely won't find ether in small places. You'll probably find .45-70, but it'll be typical somewhat anemic factory stuff. Loaded down for Trap Doors, but at least it'll likely be there.
