Anyone out there hunting with a subsonic load?

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Tikka223

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I'm curious if any of you have had success developing and hunting with a subsonic load, ex: the 300 Blackout, or maybe some other .30 cal with a reduced load.

Would a typical .30 cal bullet even expand properly at say 900fps?
 
Most modern projectiles are designed to expand with X amount of minimal velocity. Typically this is quite a bit higher than 900 FPS.
There are some bullets made specifically for sub sonic use.
Personally I would not be wanting to try 300 Blackout subsonic on game as my tracking skills are poor.
 
The long range guys are faced with the problem of transonic or even subsonic bullet impacts, and their solution is to use Bergers rather than game bullets that typically need 1700+ fps in order to upset. That might be a good place to start. If your bullet begins it's journey at low velocity, it won't have the high rotational velocity at impact that the long range bullet does, and that might have a negative effect on the terminal performance you observe. Test it before you press the trigger on a live target. On the Magpul long range rifle video, it was mentioned that a 175 gr Sierra from a .308, shot right through a pig carcass at a mile. The impact velocity was estimated at 800 fps, and the fact that the bullet passed through pretty much guarantees it did not upset at all.

I don't know what's in the water lately that so many seem to be intrigued with a minimalist approach to hunting ballistics. I'd save the low velocity stuff for small game.
 
If you are going to use a subsonic load, you may want to try a pure lead projectile. In charcoal burners, they expand very well at low velocity, and leading should not be an issue at those velocities. Don't know how they would work in a semi, though, although I did use cast in an AK years ago - but then the AK will work with anything you feed it.
 
I have used sub sonic loads for deer hunting in New Zealand, I have a 30-30 single shot, cast 165gr lead ? might be 180g, and I think about 13g trail boss, think it is about 1050fps. its quite, and doesn't disturb stock, its build on an old shotgun, and breaks into and fits in my fly fishing backpack.
I also had for a while a 308, that myself and two mates spent considerable time, expence and effert trying to get sub sonic. we used 30-30 170gr soft points, if I remember correctly, wasn't very stable at slow speed, and both above rifles were poor killers of game, with slow delayed kills the norm.
I flagged the sub sonic 308, and when back to a .222, a light year ahead for deer sized game, and quite enough, that didn't disturb game, too much as long as only one shot was fired. Was meat hunting and culling part time.
I shot, or witness shot about 40-50 deer and about 100 goats, slow kills are the norm, 75m odd, about max sensiable range, depending on size of aminal.
Now use a silencer/ sound moderator, on a full power load, have a 2506 in new Zealand, and as long as one shot only is fired, it dosen't disturb game too bad. Don't bother in the mountions, but its nice at the range and around farm stock.
Sub sonic rounds, don't kill very well at all, sound good in theory, but a .223 or similure out does them easy in performance.
I will commement, on using a sound moderator on a full power load, say .243, 270, 308 etc. is that game, often cannot pin point the direction of the shot, and quite often mill around or even run towards you, also not so hard on your, or the dogs ears.

If you want more info, hop over to the UK or new Zealand hunting forums, were sound moderators are in use.
 
southernman said:
I have used sub sonic loads for deer hunting in New Zealand, I have a 30-30 single shot, cast 165gr lead ? might be 180g, and I think about 13g trail boss, think it is about 1050fps. its quite, and doesn't disturb stock, its build on an old shotgun, and breaks into and fits in my fly fishing backpack.
I also had for a while a 308, that myself and two mates spent considerable time, expence and effert trying to get sub sonic. we used 30-30 170gr soft points, if I remember correctly, wasn't very stable at slow speed, and both above rifles were poor killers of game, with slow delayed kills the norm.
I flagged the sub sonic 308, and when back to a .222, a light year ahead for deer sized game, and quite enough, that didn't disturb game, too much as long as only one shot was fired. Was meat hunting and culling part time.
I shot, or witness shot about 40-50 deer and about 100 goats, slow kills are the norm, 75m odd, about max sensiable range, depending on size of aminal.
Now use a silencer/ sound moderator, on a full power load, have a 2506 in new Zealand, and as long as one shot only is fired, it dosen't disturb game too bad. Don't bother in the mountions, but its nice at the range and around farm stock.
Sub sonic rounds, don't kill very well at all, sound good in theory, but a .223 or similure out does them easy in performance.
I will commement, on using a sound moderator on a full power load, say .243, 270, 308 etc. is that game, often cannot pin point the direction of the shot, and quite often mill around or even run towards you, also not so hard on your, or the dogs ears.

If you want more info, hop over to the UK or new Zealand hunting forums, were sound moderators are in use.
Click to expand...

No sound moderators or suppressors for us Canadians. If the sub-sonics don't kill well I'll just scrap the idea.
 
The solution to hunting with subsonic loads is starting with a larger bore, hence heavier bullet. You can hope your .30 cal bullet opens to .458" or you can start with a .458 bullet. Subsonic loads in .44 RM (.429") and .45/70 are excellent close range medium game getters. If we use 1000 fps as a baseline, a 165 grain .30 cal bullet nets only 366 ft/lbs energy
, a 300 grain .44 RM bullet nets 666 ft/lbs energy and a 500 grain .45/70 bullet nets 1110 ft/lbs of energy... all of these loads are subsonic but the .45/70 load has three times the energy and far greater frontal area, as compared to the .30 cal load... personally, I would not use the .30 cal load, as stated above, on medium game, but would not hesitate to use the .44 load at close range and the .45/70 load a little further out yet.

IMO, if you really want to hunt with sub loads, increase the bore... I used .44 and .45/70 as illustrations, because I have experience shooting subsonic cast from both and they are both inexpensive to get into as many platforms are available in these cartidges as are a plethora of jacketed and cast bullet options as well as much data to guide your reloading.
 
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southernman said:
I have used sub sonic loads for deer hunting in New Zealand, I have a 30-30 single shot, cast 165gr lead ? might be 180g, and I think about 13g trail boss, think it is about 1050fps...
Click to expand...

How do you get 13 grains of TB in a .30/30 case?

The most I can get in and still seat a bullet securely is 11.7 grains, and that is half way up the neck. 13 grains is overflowing the mouth... the Hodgdon website lists 9.0 grains as max with a 160 grain bullet... remember TB can do strange things when compressed.

My favorite plinking load in .30/30 is 8.0 grains of TB with 165 grain cast RN's (no gas check).
 
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I agree as above. Big heavy bullets. Will also leave an exit hole most times even after hitting bone. I've played with 405 gr bullets in 45/70 at between 8-1000 fps. Never got a load to regulate in my double but the results (target impact)and penetration were quite impressive
To me 30 cal subsonic loads are for small game and varmint not big game. That's my opinion I'm not judging anyone as I know big game can be ethically taken within limits with subsonic loads of various small mid and big bore. Even handguns and air rifles. However I prefer to let a lot of light in and use big bore rifles

A max and sst bullets I've heard work very well at extended ranges on deer size game. Both are available in 30 cal with the A max being of a heavier weight. I don't believe the sst comes in above 180 gr I may be wrong just haven't seen them. If i were to load a subsonic load of jacketed in a 30 cal those would be my choice. Pure lead may offer better results. A Lot of big game has fallen to old school rimfire black powder rounds. A Lot were probably wounded to
 
hoytcanon said:
How do you get 13 grains of TB in a .30/30 case?

The most I can get in and still seat a bullet securely is 11.7 grains, and that is half way up the neck. 13 grains is overflowing the mouth... the Hodgdon website lists 9.0 grains as max with a 160 grain bullet... remember TB can do strange things when compressed.

My favorite plinking load in .30/30 is 8.0 grains of TB with 165 grain cast RN's (no gas check).
Click to expand...

I did say I think, haven't see rifle in months, Mate is using it at the moment, and its 15000km away. But I am sure you are right as powder was at shoulder height.

Good advise on the bigger bore, I have noticed quite a few guys in New Zealand, with 44 mag subs for pig hunting.
I have looked into my 9.3x62, but have not found any cast lead dies to fit yet.

I have sometimes wondered, if you could sub sonic, and silence a shotgun slug, have used a 1oz 16ga slug at 1200fps a couple times, big hole, that leaks a lot. however I suspect that the wads, and packing might not always go out the hole at the end of the silencer, how I think they should,
whats your thought Holtcanon.?
 
I haven't used ant .30 cal. at sub sonic, on deer,I have used .30 carbine with only 110gr bullets at 1800 fps with good 100% success (moderate ranges 100 yrds or less).

I agree with the crowd extolling the "big bore" theme for sub sonic hunting. again , never used actual sub sonic but 1100 fps is close enough to not make much difference. At ranges out to 265 paces (with 45-70) I've had 100% success.

I recently witnessed a bullet test a buddy did with his 45-70, two smaller bullets at considerably more than supersonic and one heavy 405 gr hard cast lead at around 1100 fps... the two lighter bullets both expanded perfectly, the hard cast hardly expanded at all but it did bend a bit at the front driving ring. the interesting thing we noticed after splitting the solid wood test medium was that the wound channel made by the big heavy bullet displaced considerably more wood than than the two faster lighter bullets. penetration was about the same for the 325 gr at 1800 fps as the heavy 405 at 1100.
 
fingers284 said:
I haven't used ant .30 cal. at sub sonic, on deer,I have used .30 carbine with only 110gr bullets at 1800 fps with good 100% success (moderate ranges 100 yrds or less).

I agree with the crowd extolling the "big bore" theme for sub sonic hunting. again , never used actual sub sonic but 1100 fps is close enough to not make much difference. At ranges out to 265 paces (with 45-70) I've had 100% success.

I recently witnessed a bullet test a buddy did with his 45-70, two smaller bullets at considerably more than supersonic and one heavy 405 gr hard cast lead at around 1100 fps... the two lighter bullets both expanded perfectly, the hard cast hardly expanded at all but it did bend a bit at the front driving ring. the interesting thing we noticed after splitting the solid wood test medium was that the wound channel made by the big heavy bullet displaced considerably more wood than than the two faster lighter bullets. penetration was about the same for the 325 gr at 1800 fps as the heavy 405 at 1100.
Click to expand...

The cast bullet was probably wheel weight or some such alloy. For hunting, in muzzleloaders, I used nothing but pure lead. 45 cal. round ball with a very mild (22gr. fffG) actually flattened out against a rabbit's head. But I do agree that the bigger the chunk of lead, the better when using slow-moving bullets (well, actually, I'm a big fan of big bullets no matter what) - just seems to perform better braking action.
 
230 grain subsonic is 45ACP. You can push 300 Blackout up closer to the sound barrier to get more energy, but you are still hunting with a big pistol. People do hunt hogs in the USA with suppressed 300 Blackout, but there isn't much advantage to being subsonic in Canada.

If you want more energy from a 1000fps load, you have to increase the bullet weight, and there are limits to that.
 
subs on squirrels only.

I have had less luck with sub 22LR but great success with 32 Cal 98-110 grain pistol rounds going 800-1100 fps. My all time favourite sub-sonic cartridge is 32-20 loaded with 3.5 grains of Trail Boss pushing a deep seated 100 grain soft lead wadcutter. Its a real "hammer of thor" on small game at ranges under 65 yards.
 
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