Ya learn something every day ....

[Sharps '63]

Just got back from a trip to the range. I left my AR15 at home, bringing my Tavor. My wife had hers. Both rifles wear red dot sights.

I normally shoot my Tavor from prone or sitting and if I can see it - I can hit it out to 300m. My wife refuses to shoot prone, preferring to sit.

After we both played with ringing the gongs, we put up targets at 25m and 50m and shot off hand. She held centre with her red dot and hit centre at both distances. I held centre and hit low.

How low? On the 8" 'Dirty Bird' targets, I hit at 6 o'clock on the black at 25m and 2" higher at 50m. Something to remember when shooting off hand in a match. I was really surprised and intend to work on it some more.

 

[TW25B]

Mechanical offset, one of the biggest negatives of the Tavor and other bullpup rifles.

TW25B

 

[Master-G]

Mechanical offset, one of the biggest negatives of the Tavor and other bullpup rifles.

Not just bullpups, but any rifle with a significant optic height over bore.

 

[driller212]

Yup, the sacrifice made for recoil being directed into the shoulder to decrease muzzle rise. Any ballistic calculator (or calculations) can tell you what will happen, and then you just memorize it, or write it down and tape it onto your rifle.

 

[84wh1]

Not just bullpups, but any rifle with a significant optic height over bore.

Exactly. Same thing with AR. All depends on your zero. At 50 years, anything inside of that requires a hold over. The closer to the target, the more of a hold over required.

 

[Sharps '63]

Did you guys miss the part where I said that my wife aimed centre and hit centre with her red dot mounted AR15?

 

[84wh1]

Did you guys miss the part where I said that my wife aimed centre and hit centre with her red dot mounted AR15?

Well yeah but it depends on your zero. If you zeroed at 50 yards and shooting off hand at 25 yards at an 8" circle, your not really gonna notice anything because your bodies arc of motion will incorporate movement into the rifle. Put that thing on a rest at 25 yards and aim for a 2" circle and now you will notice the vertical offset.

Go even closer to say about 7-10 yards and in order to hit the nose of a humanoid target, it requires a hold at the forehead.

If her ar15 was zeroed at say 25-35 yards, it should be relatively spot on at 25.

It's simply height over bore on the optics.

 

[Sharps '63]

A match we're going to will have rifle targets as close as 2m! The scoring zones will be the "A" zone - only. Gotta try that in practice to see where to hold.

Last year there were several such targets in a rifle/pistol stage that you could literally put your muzzle on and pull the trigger. Ridiculous, IMHO. These would have all been better as pistol targets, but the stage was set up so you had your option.
The last target was a full IPSC target within arms reach right up against a barrel. I was shooting my Mini 14 (mistake I won't repeat due to the 5 rd mags) and rather than take the time to change mags, I took two misses.

Not in the 'spirit of the game' but ......

 

[Master-G]

Did you guys miss the part where I said that my wife aimed centre and hit centre with her red dot mounted AR15?

I'll admit to missing it. Is your wife as experienced a shooter as you are? Maybe it was luck that she hit in the centre?

 

[stampede]

Did you guys miss the part where I said that my wife aimed centre and hit centre with her red dot mounted AR15?

Don 't listen to these guys. Mechanical offset indeed. The Tevor just automatically shoots low if it sences that the target is closer than 60 years, er yards.

 

[Aries-]

Not just bullpups, but any rifle with a significant optic height over bore.

Which should effect a ar15 the same as a tavor.

If both are zeroed at the same range it would seem odd, but if yours is zeroed for 300 yards and your wifes for 100 your poi is going to be different from your poa.

 

[TW25B]

Which should effect a ar15 the same as a tavor.

If both are zeroed at the same range it would seem odd, but if yours is zeroed for 300 yards and your wifes for 100 your poi is going to be different from your poa.

The Tavor has nearly 5" of mechanical offset as opposed to 2.25-2.5" of an AR15, that's a huge difference. You're also correct, that the zero makes a big difference. Why anyone would zero an AR for anything less than 50 yards/metres is beyond me but that will cause issues with offset and short range shooting.

TW25B