Repeated Case Separation with XCR-L 223

ccwcanada

ccwcanada

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I've had this happen twice in 200 rounds:

20150627_132637-1024x789.jpg


Using the same recipe as a previous reload batch which were fine, but this batch is with a new run/batch of power (Varget). (with 55 gr FMJ)

Gun is RA XCR-L 223. Gas setting is 1, which is the lowest setting before going to suppressed.

I guess this is the reason they say to never trust that every bottle/batch of powder is the same? The previous recipe was indeed at max charge from the Hornady manual...so, these are also at max charge, but it is a different lot of powder.

I guess I'll be pulling a few hundred rounds of reloads.

Any one wish to comment?

- Some people are saying this is due to bad brass.

Brass is American Eagle bulk, says FC on the bottom - Federal Corporation which I thought was good brass. Once or twice-shot brass.

Gunsmith said that this problem comes up with AK-style bolt carriers when the gas pressure is too high - something about the bolt extracting the empty round too early/quickly/forcefully etc.

You sure it's not the load? The rounds were shooting noticeably high...
 
ccwcanada said:
I've had this happen twice in 200 rounds:

20150627_132637-1024x789.jpg


Using the same recipe as a previous reload batch which were fine, but this batch is with a new run/batch of power (Varget). (with 55 gr FMJ)

Gun is RA XCR-L 223. Gas setting is 1, which is the lowest setting before going to suppressed.

I guess this is the reason they say to never trust that every bottle/batch of powder is the same? The previous recipe was indeed at max charge from the Hornady manual...so, these are also at max charge, but it is a different lot of powder.

I guess I'll be pulling a few hundred rounds of reloads.

Any one wish to comment?

- Some people are saying this is due to bad brass.

Brass is American Eagle bulk, says FC on the bottom - Federal Corporation which I thought was good brass. Once or twice-shot brass.

Gunsmith said that this problem comes up with AK-style bolt carriers when the gas pressure is too high - something about the bolt extracting the empty round too early/quickly/forcefully etc.

You sure it's not the load? The rounds were shooting noticeably high...
Click to expand...

Were there other high pressure signs, like flattened primers?. It could be sh!t brass it does happen. If you have another rifle like a bolt gun try the rounds in that. also look for an odd looking ring just above the case head on surviving cases. measuring the OAL of the case only will tell you if you have excessive case stretching.
 
The cases may have had incipient separations before loading. Have any not yet loaded? Check them.
 
ccwcanada said:
I guess this is the reason they say to never trust that every bottle/batch of powder is the same? The previous recipe was indeed at max charge from the Hornady manual...so, these are also at max charge, but it is a different lot of powder.
Click to expand...

You would have to really stretch my imagination to make me believe powder has much of anything to do with a failure like this. Check your brass, check your headspace.

Did you retrieve any of the bottom pieces? If the gun tried to extract while under pressure, like the gunsmith suggested, the rim will be warped and twisted by the extractor.
 
ccwcanada said:
I've had this happen twice in 200 rounds:

20150627_132637-1024x789.jpg


Using the same recipe as a previous reload batch which were fine, but this batch is with a new run/batch of power (Varget). (with 55 gr FMJ)

Gun is RA XCR-L 223. Gas setting is 1, which is the lowest setting before going to suppressed.

I guess this is the reason they say to never trust that every bottle/batch of powder is the same? The previous recipe was indeed at max charge from the Hornady manual...so, these are also at max charge, but it is a different lot of powder.

I guess I'll be pulling a few hundred rounds of reloads.

Any one wish to comment?

- Some people are saying this is due to bad brass.

Brass is American Eagle bulk, says FC on the bottom - Federal Corporation which I thought was good brass. Once or twice-shot brass.

Gunsmith said that this problem comes up with AK-style bolt carriers when the gas pressure is too high - something about the bolt extracting the empty round too early/quickly/forcefully etc.You sure it's not the load? The rounds were shooting noticeably high...
Click to expand...
AK/SKS/VZ extraction is a violent affair, which some may see as a plus. The casings spitting out of my vz and sks are always noticeably damaged, but they're usually made of steel. That being said I bought a broken shell extractor from brownells in case they rip the case head off and leave a "sleeve" of brass (or God forbid steel) in my chamber.
 
Iceblood said:
AK/SKS/VZ extraction is a violent affair, which some may see as a plus. The casings spitting out of my vz and sks are always noticeably damaged, but they're usually made of steel. That being said I bought a broken shell extractor from brownells in case they rip the case head off and leave a "sleeve" of brass (or God forbid steel) in my chamber.
Click to expand...

Yes I think I should pick one of these case extractors up! Do you have a link to the one you bought?
 
BattleRife said:
You would have to really stretch my imagination to make me believe powder has much of anything to do with a failure like this. Check your brass, check your headspace.

Did you retrieve any of the bottom pieces? If the gun tried to extract while under pressure, like the gunsmith suggested, the rim will be warped and twisted by the extractor.
Click to expand...

Yep managed to find one:

20150703_075457-800x617.jpg


20150703_075509-800x659.jpg


20150703_075523-800x658.jpg


The rim looks in really good condition actually. What do you think of the primer? Normal looking or pressure indication?
 
I wonder if trimming the neck could have expanded the end of the case and made it fit too tight in the chamber? On this batch of reloads there was the odd case that was really long and required significant trimming. My technique is rather brutish as I just put a lot of force on the (RCBS) trimmer to make it trim fast, putting significant downward pressure on the case. This would end up with the mouth-rim a little "mashed" and flattened out and then of course required significant deburring inside and outside the mouth. Perhaps all that downward force on the case expanded the end-length of the case a bit? The trimming & deburring was done after resizing. Perhaps the cases should have been resized again after the trimming and deburring was done?

Or simply that the length of those several cases indicated that those cases were getting too thin and old?
 
ccwcanada said:
Yes I think I should pick one of these case extractors up! Do you have a link to the one you bought?
Click to expand...

Nevermind, found it. The two-times this happened to me, I was lucky enough to have the broken case stuck on top of the new round, and so it pulled out with the new round, as in the OP pic.

I'll still pick up that extractor though!
 
brass that needs a lot of trimming is a sign of the case stretching. Headspace issues. Buy a headspace gauge, I use Wilson, and measure your brass after sizing, you may be resizing your brass to much, creating excessive headspace and causing case failier.
I don't like Federal brass , after 2-3 reloads I tend to throw them in the trash
 
Primers look good with a nice round shoulder on them. Nevermind the cratering, its a byproduct of a large firing pin hole in your boltface. A common occurance in XCR's. Excessive pressure while trimming is not going to expand case mouths enough to even worry about. No resizing needed afterwards. You would have a failure to chamber fully into battery if case necks were expanded excessively, not case seperations. The .223 Wylde chamber in your XCR is fairly generous and FL sizing down to the shellholder could be sizing cases in excess of ten thou. With the poor quality of Federal brass this is where your problem is coming from. Using a headspace comparator you could adjust your dies to bump 3-5 thou and prolong case life. Another brand of brass would be a good idea too.
 
supernova said:
Primers look good with a nice round shoulder on them. Nevermind the cratering, its a byproduct of a large firing pin hole in your boltface. A common occurance in XCR's. Excessive pressure while trimming is not going to expand case mouths enough to even worry about. No resizing needed afterwards. You would have a failure to chamber fully into battery if case necks were expanded excessively, not case seperations. The .223 Wylde chamber in your XCR is fairly generous and FL sizing down to the shellholder could be sizing cases in excess of ten thou. With the poor quality of Federal brass this is where your problem is coming from. Using a headspace comparator you could adjust your dies to bump 3-5 thou and prolong case life. Another brand of brass would be a good idea too.
Click to expand...

Thanks!
 
I have WCC 556 brass going on 5 or 6 reloads without a single failure other than the odd loose primer pocket (maybe 2 or 3 out of 500) None have been annealed and they've been through 2 XCRs, a Mini 14 and a couple bolt guns.

Iceblood said:
Maybe some resized 5.56 brass with reamed primer pockets? I don't think starline is even an option
Click to expand...
 
My XCR was absolutely violent with brass. Almost a lethal projectile on the ejection side of the rifle. On setting one it would send it clear across my range.
 
sikwhiskey said:
brass that needs a lot of trimming is a sign of the case stretching. Headspace issues. Buy a headspace gauge, i use wilson, and measure your brass after sizing, you may be resizing your brass to much, creating excessive headspace and causing case failier.
I don't like federal brass , after 2-3 reloads i tend to throw them in the trash
Click to expand...

this !
 
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