Was the SKS a fail?

The Commies always had a duplicate weapon system going. T-72/T-90, T-64/T-80, BMP-BTR-MTLB. Makarov-Stechkin-PSM, SKS-AKM-AK74. Various suppressed pistols. More helicopter designs that anyone ever needed.
The West would pick a design and go with it, the Sovs had competing design bureaus at each other's throats.
When the SA80 had problems, they didn't have the luxury of replacing it with the other service rifle, since they didn't have one.
The Sovs always have a smorgasbord of competing rifle designs.
 
Good question.
No, not a failure.
As others stated, a good reliable robust design, but it was fated to being a transitional rifle only (in the Warsaw Pact countries) just because the AK design came out shortly thereafter.
 
Was the SKS a fail? Compared to what? The SKS was, for the most part, superior to the mosin that preceded it, but not the equal to the AK 47 that came shortly after it.

Everything needs to be understood in context of its time. An old word processor was better than a typewriter for a short window, but computers were better than a word processor and who needs a computer now that we have tablets and email? People used to argue what was better; an HDDVD or a Blue Ray DVD (both were better than VHS), but who the hell even watches DVDs anymore?

In its time, the SKS was technologically advanced and it was such a good, dependable design that years after it became obsolete, it was still in service and still finding itself in modern conflicts even to today. Hardly a fail I would think ..... It's just that technology advances quickly.
 
Was the SKS a fail? Compared to what? The SKS was, for the most part, superior to the mosin that preceded it, but not the equal to the AK 47 that came shortly after it.

Everything needs to be understood in context of its time. An old word processor was better than a typewriter for a short window, but computers were better than a word processor and who needs a computer now that we have tablets and email? People used to argue what was better; an HDDVD or a Blue Ray DVD (both were better than VHS), but who the hell even watches DVDs anymore?


How was the sks superior to the mosin?
mosin more accurate
mosin longer bayonet
mosin could actually have a scope mounted on it
mosin won many wars
mosin bigger and better round
mosin was made compact with the M38
mosin even had a folding bigger bayonet m44
sks could put more rounds down that's about it.
both had stripper clips
 
Excellent and interesting post and insights Grelmar!

It was a transitional rifle, wedged between two lines of military thinking.

By the end of WWII, everyone saw the need to go to semi-auto, after the success of the Garand and STG-44 became apparent.

The Soviets encountered far more of the STG-44 than the Western allies did, and saw the benefits of an intermediate calibre rifle - smaller cartridges effective to realistic ranges (200, maybe 300 yards), easier to train (full powered rifles take a fair bit more practice to get used to), etc. etc.

But they were still, mentally, locked into an internal magazine with limited ammo mindset. Give Peasant Ivan 30 round magazines and a giggle switch? He'll just waste precious resources of the Motherland! It's not that different from when armies moved from single shot bolt actions to internal magazine bolt actions - almost all of the first generation internal magazine bolt action rifles had magazine cutoffs. The soldiers were under strictly enforced orders to single feed their rifles until it really hit the fan.

Because the American and western allies didn't encounter the STG-44 in any great numbers, they didn't get to understand the effectiveness of intermediate cartridges at the same time. So they stuck with full powered rifles, upgrade them to semi-auto magazine fed, and figured they were good to go. That's where the M-14, FAL, and rifles of that ilk came from.

It wasn't until Vietnam that they really started to see the value of an easily controlled, lighter, intermediate calibre carbine. Guess what the NVA and Viet Cong irregulars were most likely to be using? If you said "AK" you'd be wrong. The bulk of them were equipped with SKS's. And they were effective with them too - especially given how little training they received, and how much the North's command was willing to win by just throwing massive waves of meat at the problem.

The debate about whether switching from the M-14 to M-16 mid conflict is one that will rage forever, but it was probably the right decision. The M-16 was lighter, you could carry more ammo, and it was accurate and deadly enough for any reasonable distance of engagement the troops were like to encounter in the hills and jungle of the region.

The Chinese hung onto the SKS as a primary arm, and kept producing them, until the early 80's, IIRC.

And it's still being used in conflicts around the world. And used effectively.

So failure? No. It was probably the most successful of the post-WWII transitional arms. But it was still a transitional rifle. It was doomed from the start to be replaced by the Assault Rifle template that the Germans created in the middle of the war. It just took different countries, different amounts of time to get all the way from the old school bolt to the New Kid On The Block assault rife.
 
How was the sks superior to the mosin?
mosin more accurate
mosin longer bayonet
mosin could actually have a scope mounted on it
mosin won many wars
mosin bigger and better round
mosin was made compact with the M38
mosin even had a folding bigger bayonet m44
sks could put more rounds down that's about it.
both had stripper clips

And that's what makes the SKS "superior" in modern combat.
 
The SKS has done more to put an affordable semi centrefire rifle in the hands of Canadians, than any other gun that I can think of.
 
So why did they make so many of them just to keep people employed in communist Russian. Heck we don't need the SKS but keep producing them.


The Russian built SKS had a good eight year run before they sold the factories to China in 1956, Where the AK47 was on the increase of production. Why did the Russians build so many? I suspect it was because they got caught short of rifles when the Germans invaded in WW2 where soldiers were expected to pick up a rifle from their fallen comrade in front of them as they advanced.




In response to another post, The Mosin was not inferior to the SKS as some would put it. The Mosin was a fine weapon when armies lined up and shot at each other as early 19th century warfare was practiced, but with the advent of house clearing in cities and occupied buildings such as the end of the war in Germany a completely different type of warfare and fighting came to be. The SKS was superior in regard to close fighting with a short semi-automatic carbine where the traditional Mosin infantry rifle was too long to maneuver and slower to load. The two rifles were never compared side by side in the middle of a field to see which one shoots better or farther, They were designed for completely different uses. Although the two rifles sit next to each other in ones collection, the SKS was designed for the adaptation of new warfare rather than the replacement of the Mosin rifle.
 
Western armies have one tank, which gets phased by a new tank when it gets old. If the new tank was phased out very quickly, it would be judged a failure.
Postwar, the Soviets/Russians like to have several tank designs in frontline service, at the height of the Cold War, T-55, T-62, T-64 and T-72 were ready to invade Western Europe.
If one tank has shortcomings in certain areas, the other tanks have got it covered.
Likewise if you have SKS/AK-47/AKM/AK-74/AK-74SU as personal weapons all at the same time, it doesn't mean that one has failed, they are all part of the team. One doesn't really replace the other, and there are no failures.
 
Great thread and participation by all. Even the smack talk is entertaining. This is really why I come to this forum. To gain knowledge from those who know and to appreciate the human spirit! Lol! Sorta.
 
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