Lathes, mills, shapers etc .

Yup, they're tearing down Kitsilano high school, and selling all the shop equipment. I used some of that stuff in the '70's!
I was talking to a shop teacher there last year, and despite the shop classes being full (with lots of girls too) the VSB has decided to seriously downplay manual shop training and only offer portions of it at certain schools (they will have to bus students to other schools for shop class) as shop training is considered of extremely low importance in getting our youth ready for the real world....
Sheesh!
 
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Manual machining is virtually dead as a trade. It's still needed, but more as a support for the cnc machines. Ask any kid now if they want to do a 4 year apprenticeship In manuals or a 6 month cnc course and they look at you like you're a retard. You are lucky if most newer shops even have a manual machine. I've been machining for 35 plus years, and have about 6 years to go, and my next job will probably be at home depot
 
dogzilla said:
Manual machining is virtually dead as a trade. It's still needed, but more as a support for the cnc machines. Ask any kid now if they want to do a 4 year apprenticeship In manuals or a 6 month cnc course and they look at you like you're a retard. You are lucky if most newer shops even have a manual machine. I've been machining for 35 plus years, and have about 6 years to go, and my next job will probably be at home depot
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It makes you wonder what is being lost. The scary thing is once its gone its gone forever.
 
Sometimes I wish I had gotten into machining. Knowing what I know now, it likely wouldn't be for the money.

I'm always amazed at what the big city kids have access to in shop classes, compared to everything I didn't have access to in my shop classes. Like I was at a pverty stricken school.

It's actually sad to have to think that I was fortunate enough to even have shop class at all, as it will likely be gone altogether one day.
 
Manual is only good for one off parts. Cnc programming is the thing to learn simply being an operator wont get you far but is a neccessary first step. When i was doing cnc the only time i used a manual machine was for reworking parts that came off the cnc
 
That's so sad.

CNC is no good for doing one offs or repairs to parts. There's still plenty of room for manual machines in this world and there always will be. The sad thing is that the skills to run them are dropping off fast these days due to the generally held view that CNC will do it all. This is just one more brick removed from the wall that's about ready to fall into a heap.
 
Manual machines paid my first cnc and will likely pay the second one. I'll do 1 offs CNC, just like I'll do 1000 parts manual if I decide its better done on one of those machines, or the other way around. Sometimes it goes on both.
I know a few fairly big shops that still do a lot of both, always busy and none of it is repair work, same for me.
Heck I'm looking at a job in the 1000's now that would be done with a hand drill, just as I've had jobs that paid very well just do use a hacksaw and a file and once in a while a job shows up that a 70yr old shaper would be the sweetest thing for.

Parts will always get made one way or another. If your price is right and the parts are right, customer usually doesn't really care how the heck you make it and the less they worry about that.. the better...
 
BCRider said:
That's so sad.

CNC is no good for doing one offs or repairs to parts. There's still plenty of room for manual machines in this world and there always will be. The sad thing is that the skills to run them are dropping off fast these days due to the generally held view that CNC will do it all. This is just one more brick removed from the wall that's about ready to fall into a heap.
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Sorry to disagree, but CNC is quite marvelous for doing one-of work and repairs. If you have the correct machine. But I agree fully that there will always be room for manual machines too.

I made a LOT of parts that were very difficult to make with manual machines, that took a day or so of programming from a drawing, then a couple hours of running in several set-ups. Still a lot faster than sweating bullets over the next cut after spending literally days on dialing in the parts for one more op after another on a manual mill.

Add to that the benefit of being able to mirror parts in the software to make 'handed' parts...That actually happened to me. Took me a full day to program, another to make a good part. Put a $300K part back in service that was to be scrapped otherwise. Three days later the opposite side came in, took about an hour to get the program sorted and a couple more to make the part and out the door. Pretty good return n the time and money spent.

It depends on the part, the tool you should choose to make it. When all you have is a hammer, all problems look a lot like nails, eh?

Cheers
Trev
 
I would love to get a CNC mill. Hopefully they will eventually come down in price like Beta and VHF tape players did. I converted my Sherline 5400 to CNC years ago but ended up selling it before I could find a donor PC to run the controller. It was nothing but a tabletop toy.
 
quinnjoblow said:
I would love to get a CNC mill. Hopefully they will eventually come down in price like Beta and VHF tape players did. I converted my Sherline 5400 to CNC years ago but ended up selling it before I could find a donor PC to run the controller. It was nothing but a tabletop toy.
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I know of a fella in Edmonton that is building a turbine engine with his CNC Sherline. Scale the work to the tool and accept that there are going to be limitations, like the 20 hour plus run times on some of his parts while running surfacing operations, and you can be happy with it.

Older CNC knee type mills can be had, for about the same price as a new Sherline, but you will have to be pretty handy with old computers, old electronics, and be a good general mechanic to get them to stay running.

That, of course, ignores the general costs of tooling up, as well as having a place to put and keep, thousands of pounds of cast iron.

Cheers
Trev
 
wagnerb said:
Yeah. Nice that so much good equipment is available these days for pennies on the dollar.
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Before I bought my last lathe I had a choice between it and a small CNC lathe that was being given away at the plant where I worked because it was being phased out and most of the equipment that was computer controlled was being moved off shore. There were three large CNC machines that went to local business but no one wanted the small machine which was intended for a half dozen quick run offs at a time. The unit had some issues that I didn't want to deal with or put any money into so I stripped it of all its tooling including a 6 jaw chuck, Aloris tool post along with 8 tool bit holders and of course a small cabinet full of bits and carbide replacement tips. Thousands of dollars worth of stuff that just would have been thrown out. Looking back I wish I had taken the unit just to turn out pieces like bolt handle knobs and muzzle brakes.
 
The problem lies in the dilution of all trades. Apprentices with no skills other than the ability to absorb the limited information given from block to block and a supervisor signing their book just to have a more journeymen writing a very subjective IP are ruining the trades. Province to province there is no real standard; a red seal says I can run a cnc as well as anyone else, I can't; on the flip side there are plenty out there who can't get a tos in gear or run a dividing head.
 
The industry is getting exactly what it asked for and the education system, if we can still call it that, is helping it.
 
WereWeasel said:
The problem lies in the dilution of all trades.
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We are really seeing that in the construction trades the last few years. Why bother training a carpenter when you can graduate a "Framing technician" into the work force in only a few months. (Just don't ever ask him or her to form out a foundation or install trim. ;) )
 
WereWeasel said:
The problem lies in the dilution of all trades. Apprentices with no skills other than the ability to absorb the limited information given from block to block and a supervisor signing their book just to have a more journeymen writing a very subjective IP are ruining the trades. Province to province there is no real standard; a red seal says I can run a cnc as well as anyone else, I can't; on the flip side there are plenty out there who can't get a tos in gear or run a dividing head.
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Heard on the radio today that starting in a few months apprenticeship will now be equal across provinces, so hours/experience worked in one province will count in another, and whatever other details, didn't catch the whole bit.
The whole system has been a mess for a few decades.
 
SND said:
Heard on the radio today that starting in a few months apprenticeship will now be equal across provinces, so hours/experience worked in one province will count in another, and whatever other details, didn't catch the whole bit.
The whole system has been a mess for a few decades.
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The Federal government has been working very hard towards "Trade Mobility" across Canada the last few years. There is also some talk now about allowing foreign credentials to be recognized in Canada to allow for easier importation of `Temporary Foreign Workers`
 
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