SSG 3000 vs Tikka T3 Tactical - Is one better than the other for 600+yards?

Rickster66

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Just getting into the long range discipline and was looking at either the SSG3000 or the Tikka T3 Tactical as my first precision rifle. Trying to keep the rifle around $2000 and in .308. Are one of these better than the other for longer distances? I've handled the SSG3000 but not the Tikka T3 Tactical. I see lots more aftermarket support for the T3 action. Perhaps the SSG3000 doesn't need any upgrades like the Tikka (recoil lug, pillar bed, bolt shroud, etc). How to do the factory stocks compare?

Any one have any experiences with both and care to share their thoughts?
 
I'm not an expert on the t3's but I would also recommend looking at the t3 varmint rifles as they are about $800 cheaper and don't appear to be all that much different from the tactical model...for $800 you could put a nice aftermarket stock and ditch the plastic factory stock that the Tikka rifles tend to come with
 
I'm not an expert on the t3's but I would also recommend looking at the t3 varmint rifles as they are about $800 cheaper and don't appear to be all that much different from the tactical model...for $800 you could put a nice aftermarket stock and ditch the plastic factory stock that the Tikka rifles tend to come with

Agreed.

My tikkas are great shooters and there arnt enough ssg3000's around to really know how good they are.
 
Thanks for the input. I thought about building a custom Tikka build from a varmint base but wasn't sure how much additional upgrades were already put into the T3 Tactical. The SSG 3000 seems to be really ready to shoot out of the box and looks great as well.
 
I built off a T3 Varmint this spring and its one of the best shooting guns Ive ever owned. I spent $180 on bottom metal, tactical bolt knob and metal shroud. Greta thing about Tikka is your not limited with shippers as most parts can come cheap from Australia. Added a 20 moa Pic rail for $75 and 2 MDT 10 round AI style mags. Ive never heard needing pillars or glass bedding a Tikka as they shoot amazing as is. Im out to 900 yards shooting 82 gr Bergers. The T3 Varmints are the best bang for your buck rig available and aftermarket support is everywhere now. Want a Cadex stock, Mcmillan, Manners...ect they are all available for a Tikka, probably not for an SSG.
I cant say an SSG is any better or worse but the guys shooting Tikkas seem to be a happy group all the time.

Cheers!!
 
Weatherby.......and nothing more.
Ps; sub $1000 sub moa, gives more money to spend on practices. Er do what u will. TMO though.
.arealshootercanusewhatsgiven. ( . )( . )


But the 3000 is very nice of the two ur asking.
 
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Just getting into the long range discipline and was looking at either the SSG3000 or the Tikka T3 Tactical as my first precision rifle. Trying to keep the rifle around $2000 and in .308. Are one of these better than the other for longer distances? I've handled the SSG3000 but not the Tikka T3 Tactical. I see lots more aftermarket support for the T3 action. Perhaps the SSG3000 doesn't need any upgrades like the Tikka (recoil lug, pillar bed, bolt shroud, etc). How to do the factory stocks compare?

Any one have any experiences with both and care to share their thoughts?

I owned a T3 tac in .308 24" about 10 yrs ago and it was a good LR rifle but a SSG 3000 w/ the McMillan Sig 3000 stock is at another level, didn't owned one but had one for testing purpose about 5 yrs ago, put about 1500 rounds through it in two full weeks. It performed very well with just about any loads from 155gr to 185gr but preferred the lighter stuff, 1 in 12" 4R left hand twist will favor lighter bullets tho (under 168gr). Those are pretty scarce & about $2800 now.

For $2k you could find a SSG 3000 Patrol US rifle (German bbl, bolt & action) with the Sig factory stock witch is still a better rifle than a T3. By the way the US SSG 3000 Patrol now have a 1 in 11" 4R left hand twist witch help stabilize heavier bullets.
 
the SSG 3000 is probably better compared to the TRG than the Tikka T3 ( speaking in terms of accuracy). Like the TRG its a sub moa rifle, and can shoot almost anything very very accurately. If you can buy a German SSG 3000 for the same price at the T3 you will have a better rifle, if you can buy an American SSG 3000 for less than a T3 you will have a better rifle, for less money than a T3. I am a sako fan, but these Sig's are proven to be wonderful rifles.
 
the SSG 3000 is probably better compared to the TRG than the Tikka T3 ( speaking in terms of accuracy). Like the TRG its a sub moa rifle, and can shoot almost anything very very accurately. If you can buy a German SSG 3000 for the same price at the T3 you will have a better rifle, if you can buy an American SSG 3000 for less than a T3 you will have a better rifle, for less money than a T3. I am a sako fan, but these Sig's are proven to be wonderful rifles.

Would tikkas fall into the greater then 1moa category?
 
One might make the argument that the realistically 0.2 moa difference between these two rifles is a moot point at 600 to 1200 yards.
Hit percentage is much more likely to be effected by environmental fluctuations than the accuracy discrepancy.
My point ?
Both rifles will have a lower hit percentage at long range than something with superior ballistics like a .260 or 6.5x55 in a tikka varmint, which is a solid half moa rifle with handloads.
 
I hope I don't step on too many toes here but in my experience yes the T3 Lite falls into the over 1moa category. My friend has had 4 that I've shot at the range. They've had very heavy triggers, smooth and nice break but heavy. Here and there one's been sub MOA with a particular load on a particular day, but no they haven't been repeatably reliably sub moa. The first T3 in their family was a gift for a friend and was sub MOA with factory ammo at sight in. The first T3 they kept for themselves was sub MOA with a factory load but they didn't want to use that load. The 3rd T3 bought would not go sub MOA with any factory ammo tried(many were tried) and subsequently would not acheive sub MOA with handloads(many many were tried). He was so intent on trying and so believed that T3s were great rifles that when he did give up he was past the date to return it based on the accuracy guarantee. The fourth T3 they purchased, I do not know if it has ever shot a sub MOA group.(I go to the range more so I often do load evaluation for him).

At this point I am personally somewhere between 100-200 rounds behind the trigger of a T3. While shooting together I've witnessed at least 200 rounds fired by my friend. The reality is that while I haven't seen consistent sub MOA, I've rarely seen 2 MOA. I would say the overall average is 1.25MOA.(I know the difference between IPHY and MOA). I think the T3 is a great hunting rifle and so do my friends, as proven by their continual acquisitions. They are light, smooth, they handle well, and my friends like the detachable magazines.

In defense of T3 accuracy I will say that while I truly believe my friend is a careful handloader(I shoot his handloads) he is not what you would call methodical in load development. He tries just enough charges for safety sake and then switches components if he doesn't find a load. He also chooses loads based on using a specific bullet or powder, not what shoots most accurately. He is after all a hunter and chooses bullets primarily for terminal performance.

In comparison my R700 bedded with a timney trigger will do a ladder test with as many as 10 increments where all are sub MOA. Yeah I want to take the challenge.

If I bought a T3 for long range precision, I would treat it like a Rem700 and do the trigger, bedding, stock etc. T3s often have the recoil lug swapped. I actually had a conversation with a friend today who has been playing with a T3 in 300WM for long range and this past winter he bought a B&C medallist stock, changed the recoil lug, bedded the rifle, got different bottom metal so he could run mags that let him seat his bullets for the best accuracy, I don't think he mentioned the trigger but maybe his is light enough.

That's my 2 bits on the T3

Willy
 
I've never had a tikka that wasn't sub moa consistently. I've had several Remington's and savages that would shoot the odd half moa group, but not consistently. They did not perform as well as the tikka's, and this is not speaking of a friends rifle or something, I've owned a PC10, fcp-sr, aac-sd, 5r "mil spec", 700 varmint, etc.
Tikka trigger is comparable to an aftermarket 700 with a lighter $15 spring.
The tikka set trigger I find superior to any available aftermarket triggers, with no tweaks at all.
My tikka tac .223 is pretty solid in the .3 to .4 range on average with 80 grain bergers. Upwards of 3500 rounds through that rifle now.
The tikka sporter in 6.5x55 I just started playing with ran ten charge weights, with five round groups, in to a max of .7 moa, with the majority around .5 and below.

300 yards:


It's been my experience that all tikka tacs are half moa or better rifles, but you do have to load for them. Trg's and ssg's seem to be more tolerant of factory ammo.
If you could find an ssg3000 chambered in something better than 308, it'd be an easy choice to go that way.
 
I hope I don't step on too many toes here but in my experience yes the T3 Lite falls into the over 1moa category. My friend has had 4 that I've shot at the range. They've had very heavy triggers, smooth and nice break but heavy. Here and there one's been sub MOA with a particular load on a particular day, but no they haven't been repeatably reliably sub moa. The first T3 in their family was a gift for a friend and was sub MOA with factory ammo at sight in. The first T3 they kept for themselves was sub MOA with a factory load but they didn't want to use that load. The 3rd T3 bought would not go sub MOA with any factory ammo tried(many were tried) and subsequently would not acheive sub MOA with handloads(many many were tried). He was so intent on trying and so believed that T3s were great rifles that when he did give up he was past the date to return it based on the accuracy guarantee. The fourth T3 they purchased, I do not know if it has ever shot a sub MOA group.(I go to the range more so I often do load evaluation for him).

At this point I am personally somewhere between 100-200 rounds behind the trigger of a T3. While shooting together I've witnessed at least 200 rounds fired by my friend. The reality is that while I haven't seen consistent sub MOA, I've rarely seen 2 MOA. I would say the overall average is 1.25MOA.(I know the difference between IPHY and MOA). I think the T3 is a great hunting rifle and so do my friends, as proven by their continual acquisitions. They are light, smooth, they handle well, and my friends like the detachable magazines.

That's my 2 bits on the T3

Willy

What "T3's" did you have? Lite's?

I have yet to see a heavy barrel tikka shoot worse then 1moa at 100 yards.

It would be pretty safe to say both mine and my girlfriends t3 sporters are 1/2 moa rifles.
 
Yes T3 Lites. I read this section of the forum a lot since it often has more relevant and instructive threads than some of the other ones. I realize it's the "precision rifle section" so logically the Tikkas referred to here would generally be heavy barreled or tactical versions. But even here there is often reference to a brand in general.

I would love to get a T3 Sporter it fits my idea of what a target rifle should be.
 
Would tikkas fall into the greater then 1moa category?

Kona, No I didn't say that. Tikka T3 tac as most of us know use a TRG barrel, and are very accurate sub MOA. The varmint is also accurate, but not as, and the lite not quite as accurate. The TRG is a different animal, it is typically more accurate than T3 tactical, which has more to do with action, trigger stock than the barrel as the barrels are the same, All are great accurate rifles, and I own many. I was comparing the T3 tactical to the Sig and TRG and in my humble opinion and experience the Sig is better compared to the TRG than the T3 tactical, that opinion remains.

Cheers.
 
If you want the SSG3000, I'd recommend getting it sooner than later. I just got off the phone from with Sig and it seems they are no longer importing the SSG3000 or accessories. They aren't able to import them due to legal restrictions so Sig USA is apparently working at other solutions for accessories and replacement parts. My guess is they will start manufacturing in the US.

There are companies out there that make barrel conversions or aftermarket barrels for it though so you'd still be fine.
 
Thanks for the input guys. I'm really leaning towards the the T3 Tactical at the moment due to the rarity of the SSG3000 (trying to find one will most likely be very difficult or will require me to pay above original retail). Another option that just crossed my path is a T3 CTR. Other than the manganese-phosphate finish, magazine and adjustable cheek - is the T3 CTR really just a shorter T3 Tactical action/accuracy wise at shorter ranges (600yds or less)?
 
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Kona, No I didn't say that. Tikka T3 tac as most of us know use a TRG barrel, and are very accurate sub MOA. The varmint is also accurate, but not as, and the lite not quite as accurate. The TRG is a different animal, it is typically more accurate than T3 tactical, which has more to do with action, trigger stock than the barrel as the barrels are the same, All are great accurate rifles, and I own many. I was comparing the T3 tactical to the Sig and TRG and in my humble opinion and experience the Sig is better compared to the TRG than the T3 tactical, that opinion remains.

Cheers.

How did you come across this information?
 
To everyone except the original poster- holy cow, this thread is like a hen house- a whole pile of clucking but little said in the way of helpful advice!

Rickster- a T3 Tac will be neat. A T3 varmint will be economical. A T3 Sporter will give you the best option overall. Why? It gives you more ergonomics than the Tikka plastic stock, and has the most thought out stock design condusive to consistency on the line. It is not a copy of the TRG stock, but it's similar enough. If you don't like the color, paint it. After that, no heavy barrel Tikka will give you any advantage over the others. They're all more accurate than you will be able to fully experience for a long time. The Varmint and Tac stocks, structurally, are identical; and in turn, are similar if not identical to the Lite stocks with some additional surface area fastened on. That's it- they're simple, straightforward, and work. All this nit picking on the basis of price tag is bunk. Don't waste too much of your time thinking these things make a difference. Some factory barrels are amazing, some are picky, that's the nature of the game. The benefit of Tikka is that if you get tired of your barrel, take it and a new blank to a smith, pay them $300 and pick up an awesome new configuration in two weeks. The tenon is 1"x16, which shouldn't bend too many minds. Along the way, you will learn how and why bedding works, and how to use it effectively. Some actions benefit from it, some just don't care. Some folks think bedding will squeeze water from stones. You'll also learn about the realities of external ballistics. Another item that folks try to avoid learning by either throwing money at equipment or modifications. After two seasons, you will be glad that you didn't spend more than necessary to learn the basics.

The SSG is a cool system that is totally unsupported in North America. An adapter that takes a novel idea and dumbs it back down to North Americam standards is not "support". Break or loose an internal part, and you're probably down for the season.

This chatter about the SSG is comparable to the TRG is greater than the Tikka, but the Tikka has a TRG barrel, but no its the trigger that makes the TRG more accurate somehow again is hot air. If one were to take all three types and shoot 20 shot groups with each at a given distance, with three different sorts of commercial (match) ammo, I would be quite surprised if there is any discernable difference between the resulting 60 shot aggregates (20rds x 3 types of ammo thru each). There are reviews of this sort of stuff all over the net, and if a factory barrel gives you 3/4 min it's cause for satisfaction- SSG included. A 1/2 min group is excellent. Two in a row is better. Past that, you're into statistics. A match is never 5 rounds and go home. Shoot 30 into a group and talk to me about "1/2 minute".

The CTR has no benefit over the previously mentioned models, and has a short barrel, which does not help you perform more better at longer ranges- or short ranges for that matter.

Have fun with your choice. No downsides to either rifle. Pick what looks good and the guy shooting next to you's girlfriend stops to ask about.
 
I'm not an expert on the t3's but I would also recommend looking at the t3 varmint rifles as they are about $800 cheaper and don't appear to be all that much different from the tactical model...for $800 you could put a nice aftermarket stock and ditch the plastic factory stock that the Tikka rifles tend to come with

X2. Really sound advice, and I do have a couple of Tikka's.

Conduced.
 
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