Help! primer leak... destroyed bolt face...

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Haiwoo

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Hi CGN,

I'm fairly new to guns and shooting. a friend talked me into buying a Remington 700 5r in 308. i've been reloading using my friend's tools. Using Remington Premium brass, Winchester primer, Hornady 168gr or 175gr projectiles, Varget powder (been trying from 41.5 - 44.5gr powders)
There was quite a few times i've had duds, not knowing any better, i listened to other people to just #### and shoot it again (stupid of me...) So there were times when the primer leaked and smoke came out of the action. This happened about 6-7 times in total (i've had about 200 rounds through the gun).
The other day i pulled out the bolt and i was shocked... the bolt face looks terrible... i don't even know how to describe it...
What should i do next with this thing??? (i've had people telling me it won't really affect accuracy and if i start using norma or laupa brass i should be fine from now on... but i've also had people telling me to be prepared in the next few weeks to spend $500+ buy a new bolt and have a gun smith install it etc..)

what should i do... and how much should i budget for...?

Thanks in advance guys!
http://s284.photobucket.com/user/haiwoo/media/IMG_6769_zpsleoxafu9.jpg.html
http://s284.photobucket.com/user/haiwoo/media/IMG_6770_zpsb7mw69eh.jpg.html
 
Yup, you're an idiot.

If you had a bunch of duds, then there was something wrong. Definately get that figured before doing more shooting.

A smith might be able to clean it up a bit in a lathe or with the right tool and then just adjust your headspace to take up the slack.
 
Mad_Mikee said:
Yup, you're an idiot.

If you had a bunch of duds, then there was something wrong. Definately get that figured before doing more shooting.

A smith might be able to clean it up a bit in a lathe or with the right tool and then just adjust your headspace to take up the slack.
Click to expand...

That bolt may not be pretty but it isn't dangerous to keep using "yet."

It sounds like you set your shoulders back while resizing and created a headspace situation. That is the worst bolt face I've seen on a modern commercial rifle. Many milsurps have similar issues.

Instead of full length resizing, I suggest you only neck size by backing off your die until the shoulder on your cartridges isn't being set back. If you size to the bottom of the neck or very close to it you will still get partial resizing of the shoulder and about half the case body. This is usually enough to alleviate any chambering issues and takes up most of the headspace and therefore won't allow your primers to back out and stop the gas leaks. Another thing, your loads are "HOT."

I tried Varget in a 308 rifle with a Palma Match chamber which is on the tight side and at 40 grains with 168 BTHP bullets I was getting pressure signs. You need to be careful. You are very lucky that you have a strong rifle and that both the powder and the rifle are forgiving.

Reduce your powder charge or get a more appropriate powder for that bullet weight/cartridge combination.

One more thing, check the lug recesses inside the receiver to see if they have been set back as well.

Now, you say you only checked the bolt after 200 rounds???? Why??? If you have shot 200 rounds down that bore without cleaning out the jacket and powder fouling you may also be building up pressures by allowing the fouling to build up to constricting levels which will over time cause some serious issues.

I picked up a lovely Mod 70 (less than a year old) in the Chilliwack gun show this spring from a walk in customer. He was irate and warned me before he sold me the rifle that it would shoot around corners. I asked if he had taken it back for warranty. He couldn't be bothered. He sold it to me sans scope for $400. At that price, I could throw a take off barrel onto it and still come out ahead. When I got it home, I locked it into my lead sled and bore sighted it. Should have looked down the bore before taking it to the range. I could see the fouling in the bore from the chamber end. Luckily I carry a can of Wipe Out with me to the range with some cleaning patches and a cleaning jag on a rod. The rifle got a shot of WIPE OUT and had a green branch plug jammed into the chamber while the WO did its work. I shot other rifles for about an hour before cleaning out the copper solvent. It needed another shot of WO so the process was repeated. Again, after some other range work I went back to the Mod 70 which was chambered in 308Win. This time after scrubbing out the solvent it still had some streaks but nothing serious.

The first two shots were on paper but that was it. The third shot went about 3in high and 2in left of center. Close enough. I then shot 3 more at the target from the solidly clamped rifle. They all went to the same area into a two inch group. I attributed this to movement of the sled. The fellow that bought the rifle from me scoped it up and took it out with factory fodder. He was thrilled. It shot as well as any other rifle he had and he is a darn good shot.

Cleaning is extremely important. So is following proper loading procedure. I suspect that you set back the shoulders of your cartridge and produced a condition by loading to HOT that caused your primers to flatten and back out allowing the gas to leak and the hot flame from those gasses cut the face of your bolt.

As mentioned, a gunsmith could weld up the face of your bolt and clean it up but it would still likely be noticeable that work was done.

The bolt looks serviceable as is.

Check the distance from the base of a fired case that hasn't been resized against that of a case that has been resized but unfired. It doesn't take much to cause a problem like you have when high pressures magnify it.

Winchester primers are hard but if everything else is right they should do the job just fine. Some target rifles with light firing pin springs won't always ignite them. Most hunting rifles will though.
 
Before you get all panicky about a new bolt, take it to a good gunsmith and ask about bushing the face, it looks to me like you were running either some serious over pressure, head space issue, or the bolt was cut a little too deep on the inside.
 
I suspect that you set back the shoulders of your cartridge and produced a condition by loading to HOT that caused your primers to flatten and back out allowing the gas to leak and the hot flame from those gasses cut the face of your bolt.
Click to expand...

Being that he is using Winchester primers, it may not be a hot load at all. There have been several batches of defective Winchester primers that ruptured and caused bolt damage just like in the pictures. With these defective primers, ruptures are common even with milder loads.

Damage from defective primers.

270WSM2.jpg


boltface_zps2ebf05fe.jpeg


Pictures of defective Winchester primers.

DefectivePrimer.jpg


270rupturedprimer_zps47599284.jpg
 
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I use 168 SMKs over 46gr Varget and Winchester primers and have never had a single issue in my Savage 10TR. I would agree that the batch of primers may have been defective without having seen the case you reloaded
 
Stubblejumper, you could easily be right and in reality I really dislike Winchester components of any sort and only use them if nothing else is available. There was a time when that brand name meant quality in relation to loading components.

I still think that his shoulders have been set back during his full length resizing. IMHO, that is why he is having trouble with misfires, unless he has a light firing pin spring in his rifle. I would really like to see a pic of the shoulders on his cases. I my theory is correct there will be an indicating mark beneath the shoulder line, maybe only a few thou but it would be there.

One other thing he can do is get his buddies to load a couple of his primers and see what happens in their rifles but with their own cases that have been sized with their dies.

One other thing the OP can try is to just prime some sized cases without powder and bullets and see what happens. Those blow holes are either caused by thin metal in the primer jacket or from high pressure loads. I have had similar issues with BR-2 CCI primers with hot loads in my 308 HBR rifle even with 135grain bullets.
 
I do not think that it is the OP's fault.
As others have stated there have been issues with certain batches of Winchester primers.
If you have the lot numbers of the Winchester primers and the fired brass with the primers that are pierced in the corners contact Winchester.
They have paid others the cost to replace bolts including gunsmithing fees.
 
What is this like the 4th or 5th thread like this in the last year, same problem, same primers. Winchester needs to get their #### together. As soon as I saw the title of the thread I knew it would involve Winchester primers.
 
I'm going through the repair process with Winchester right now. I damaged the bolt face of my .270 and my K31 with a Winchester primers before I realized what was happening. They will pay for the repairs but I wouldn't expect to get your rifle back by hunting season. Actually if you contact Winchester now you might hear from them by hunting season!

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I'm "sitting" on about 5000 Win LR primers. Haven't had a problem so far but my nephew did. I too would like to know the problem lot #'s before I possibly damage something.
 
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