FL sized cases will not chamber

[bigedp51]

However, as to what it was fired in and how many times...who knows?

Ganderite, that is correct...no problems and now, BAM! problems. As has been suggested, I am going to check for cam over, adjust if necessary and then try again. Also, I doubt it can be the chamber of the particular rifle I am using to check fit...it has only seen a few rounds due to being relatively new.

In your first posting you said you didn't know what the brass had been fired in or how many times.

So was this brass fired in other rifles, was it range pickup brass or was it new brass just fired in your new rifle.

To solve your sizing problem we need straight answers, were some or all of these cases fired in other rifles?

 

[stubblejumper]

[QUOTE However, as to what it was fired in and how many times...who knows? ][/QUOTE]

And there is the issue, it is not at all unusual for cases fired in one rifle to not chamber in another rifle, even after being run through a FL die. Even small base dies will not always remedy the situation.

 

[H4831]

No, I don't want to ignore a potential solution. I just didn't think it could be due to fouling or crud in the chamber because it has only been fired a few times. If you can elaborate as to how it is properly done, I am all ears. Thanks.

I didn't say anything abut crud, or fouling in the chamber.
The rifles I have had your problem with had shiny, clean chambers. After annealing the problem cases they went in fine. As far as I know annealing is the only solution, and annealing is never a bad idea, so don't dread it.
As has been stated, anyone who gives annealing instructions on here will just open a can of worms and get trashed, because there are so many ways to do it. So just look up one of the many methods of annealing your cases.

Edited to say that when you look up annealing rifle cases, there is no end of advertising some type of machine that will do it for you.
There is no need to buy any machine/gimmick. All you need is a little compressed gas torch, like you would use for soldering.

 

[Dogleg]

Not all dies will size every case fired in random rifles enough to chamber in a rifle with a tight chamber. Normally that's not a bad thing, because most factory chambers are rather generous and don't need the living sh*t squeezed out of every case to fit. The short answer is you probably have a rifle with a chamber on the tight side of the spectrum and a small base die will fix you right up. A small base die will return a case to the minimum spec, or about like brand new brass. Ever notice that factory ammo fits in everything?

I've got many rifles in the same chamberings, and many of those custom chambered. The small base dies get their share of work.

 

[308BAR]

Ensure your decapping rod is not bottoming out in the case, this will prevent a proper FL size.

 

[ruger22]

Bought a chamber cleaning kit at a gun show a few years ago
Wish I had bought one 25 years ago...

Now I chamber clean...
After buying a new gun
After buying a used gun
After hunting in the rain, snow
When a buddy brings his gun over
Etc

But I suggest you problem will go away with annealing or new brass properly FL sized, as mentioned above

Any chance his die is off spec?

 

[Boomer]

I have been having an issue with my .308 reloads of late. Many of them will not chamber after full length resizing...empty cases and loaded rounds. I have screwed the die in and out, a little at a time, to see if that makes a difference, but no luck. The brass in question is within spec length wise. However, as to what it was fired in and how many times...who knows? I load and fire, refill and repeat until such time as I notice cases cracking or splitting, and then toss them.

I doubt it can be a problem with almost every case, as some have been through the cycle a few times, whereas others have only been fired once or twice. Any thoughts or suggestions? I guess the quickest way would be to toss my current stash of empties and start from scratch...but I'd like to avoid that as I really do have a lot of .308 brass. So, ideas, suggestions and possible solutions are most welcome. Thanks.

Resize a fired case and before moving on to the next step, see if it chambers in your rifle, if it does the problem relates to the bullet not to resizing. If the brass case alone doesn't chamber, you could make your case holder a bit thinner, or put your FL sizing die in a lathe and shorten it slightly.

 

[Chuckbuster]

In your first posting you said you didn't know what the brass had been fired in or how many times.

So was this brass fired in other rifles, was it range pickup brass or was it new brass just fired in your new rifle.

To solve your sizing problem we need straight answers, were some or all of these cases fired in other rifles?

It is brass that has been fired in a few different rifles and includes range brass. Virtually all of the cases have been fired in other rifles, and will be fired in a few different rifles. Hence the need for full length resizing. I collect my brass, pick up brass others leave behind, and have purchased a lot as once fired. In the case of my own brass I do not keep track of which case was fired in which rifle (save for some that I purchased new to be used exclusively in my Remington varmint rifle) or how many times. I then load a batch; either a specific load that I know one rifle likes, or a general purpose load that shoots pretty well across the board in most rifles.

I went back to the press last night and made a deliberate effort to adjust the die for cam over. And, after some lower adjustment, began to notice and feel it on completion of the downstroke. I noticed some cases had no cam over when resizing and those did not chamber. But of the something like 40 cases I had in the block, only 6 or 7 did that. So, I am going to try resizing some more today, to see if my problem has mostly been solved. And if so, I am going to try annealing the recalcitrant cases that will not conform. And as an additional aside, I did give the chamber a good scrubbing as well to remove any residual crud as a potential cause.

ETA: I grabbed my coffee and went back downstairs to the press this morning. I resized another 40 cases and all chambered in the rifle. The die is screwed in significantly lower than is called for in Lee's instructions. Also, I didn't feel or observe cam over in all cases. So, while this seems to have solved my problem for the most part, I think I will obtain a small base die as some of you have suggested (thanks for that), and anneal those cases that refuse to comply with my demands. I should also mention that after completing a few morning chores, I am going to randomly grab 4 or 5 cases from the lot and seat a bullet sans primer and powder, just to make sure before I turn them all into live ammo...

Thanks all for the advice and helpful suggestions, it is much appreciated. If anything changes or the problem persists, rest assured I will,be,back to pick your brains.

Thanks again.

 

[Neilm]

If your going to anneal you should do them all or you will have very inconsistent neck tension. Can make a difference in velocities and group size.

 

[Ian Robertson]

Lets start from scratch. What action is it? Is the barrel factory or custom? if custom who did the work? If custom who made the reamer?

 

[Chuckbuster]

The particular rifle is a new Ruger American. Bone stock. I am looking to develop a load that it likes as another load that does well in my Tikka, is not very accurate in this rifle. And, having said that, I completed a batch with 5 different bullets ahead of the same powder charge to see if any of these combos show promise. Off to the range I go over the next few days!

 

[scuba52]

When I do load development I start with new never fired brass. Reduces problems and variables like this. I had a similar problem with some lapua brass I bought (only 10 rds) talked to a gun smith and he said just throw it out, why risk making a sloppy chamber

 

[bigedp51]

Chuckbuster

As I stated in a earlier posting I was given three five gallon buckets of once fired .223/5.56 brass. I use the vast majority of this mixed brass in my AR15 carbine as practice ammunition at 100 yards or less.

In my AR15 A2 HBAR and my .223 bolt action for accuracy loads I use new brass from the same lot. Meaning you will never get uniform accuracy using mixed brass of varying weights and age.

I would also highly recommend getting the Hornady Cartridge Case Headspace gauge to measure the fired length of the case and then its resized length.

Below the Hornady gauge and measuring a fired case from my AR15 carbine.

Below the same case after full length resizing and .003 shoulder bump.

By using the Hornady gauge for case headspace length and a JP Enterprises case gauge to check body diameter I know all my cases will fit the chamber without any problems "BEFORE" they are chambered.

 

[sunray]

The Hornady Cartridge Case Headspace gauge has nothing to do with headspace. It's a case length gauge that measures from the shoulder. No such thing as case headspace. Headspace is a rifle manufacturing tolerance ONLY. There is such a thing as cases that need trimming. Check the case lengths.

 

[Ganderite]

I went back to the press last night and made a deliberate effort to adjust the die for cam over. And, after some lower adjustment, began to notice and feel it on completion of the downstroke. I noticed some cases had no cam over when resizing and those did not chamber. But of the something like 40 cases I had in the block, only 6 or 7 did that. So, I am going to try resizing some more today, to see if my problem has mostly been solved. And if so, I am going to try annealing the recalcitrant cases that will not conform. And as an additional aside, I did give the chamber a good scrubbing as well to remove any residual crud as a potential cause.

ETA: I grabbed my coffee and went back downstairs to the press this morning. I resized another 40 cases and all chambered in the rifle. The die is screwed in significantly lower than is called for in Lee's instructions. Also, I didn't feel or observe cam over in all cases. So, while this seems to have solved my problem for the most part, I think I will obtain a small base die as some of you have suggested (thanks for that), and anneal those cases that refuse to comply with my demands. I should also mention that after completing a few morning chores, I am going to randomly grab 4 or 5 cases from the lot and seat a bullet sans primer and powder, just to make sure before I turn them all into live ammo...


Thanks again.

I have not read Lee instructions recently. But it sounds like they are poorly drafted,or you are misunderstanding something.

The die FL sizes only when the die bottoms out on the shell holder. You can't get any "lower" than that, so I don't see you can be lower than what Lee instructed. Screw your die down another full turn or 2 so that the die hits the shell holder and won't go any farther. Unless you do this, you are not FL sizing the brass.

 

[Chuckbuster]

Hmmm....Lee says to screw the die in until it touches the shell holder, lower the ram and then screw the die in 1/4 to 1/3 turn more. This is exactly what I have been doing up till this point. I too thought maybe I was getting something wrong and so I referenced the instructions to be sure...but, that is exactly what I was doing.

 

[Ganderite]

Hmmm....Lee says to screw the die in until it touches the shell holder, lower the ram and then screw the die in 1/4 to 1/3 turn more. This is exactly what I have been doing up till this point. I too thought maybe I was getting something wrong and so I referenced the instructions to be sure...but, that is exactly what I was doing.

OK. Turn it down another full rev.

 

[bigedp51]

The Hornady Cartridge Case Headspace gauge has nothing to do with headspace. It's a case length gauge that measures from the shoulder. No such thing as case headspace. Headspace is a rifle manufacturing tolerance ONLY. There is such a thing as cases that need trimming. Check the case lengths.

sunray, your as dumb as a box of rocks and as always you do not know what you are talking about.

Below a Colt 5.56 Field gauge at 1.4736

And below the Colt gauge in my calibrated Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge.

With this same gauge, using a new or full length resized case and a fired spent primer I can get the exact headspace reading of my chamber.

Below is a fired case from my AR15 carbine, the actual chamber headspace is a little over this reading due to brass spring back.

Bottom line, my calibrated Hornady gauge is no longer a comparator gauge and measures actual headspace.

Lock-N-Load® Headspace Kit With Body
http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Headspace-Kit-With-Body-1-Each/

Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Gage 5 Bushing Set with Comparator
The Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Gage is a great tool for increasing the accuracy of your loaded ammunition. The Headspace gage measures from the case-head to the datum line on the case shoulder to allow proper brass resizing for a precise fit with the rifle chamber. Bushings fit the comparator body and attach to calipers with a thumb screw. Can be used with bottleneck cases from 17 caliber through large belted magnums.

http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/479704/hornady-lock-n-load-headspace-gage-5-bushing-set-with-comparator?cm_vc=ProductFinding

 

[444shooter]

Is the brass commercial or military? All the same headstamp? (make)

 

[stubblejumper]

The Hornady Cartridge Case Headspace gauge has nothing to do with headspace. It's a case length gauge that measures from the shoulder. No such thing as case headspace. Headspace is a rifle manufacturing tolerance ONLY. There is such a thing as cases that need trimming. Check the case lengths.