The Norinco Flier
- Thread starter sniper58
- Start date
84wh1
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
That just seems to be what Norcs do. I ALWAYS get a flyer in my groups. Now I know some people say to let the barrel cool but I just don't. I mean what's the point of cooling the barrel between shots. In a sense, the "group" becomes 5 single shots. Not really a "group" if you ask me.
Just my opinion and really, I've only had my Norc for 6 months so it's not really a valid opinion. Bahaha
Just my opinion and really, I've only had my Norc for 6 months so it's not really a valid opinion. Bahaha
BattleRife
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- of No Fixed Address
Given that this is the Battle Rifles forum, can I assume that this is a Norinco M14S / M305?
If so, it's not a Norinco flyer, it's a M14 flyer. The US made ones were well documented to do the same thing.
If so, it's not a Norinco flyer, it's a M14 flyer. The US made ones were well documented to do the same thing.
Have you guys considered the fact that they are not flyers and that the accuracy of these rifles is not as high as you think it is? Try a 10 shot group. Or even a 20. Take a good look at the actual spread of the group. Everybody thinks their gun's are laser beams and everytime that Nth shot doesn't make the group, it's a "flyer". Are you sure its a flyer?
IMHO....redirect your $$ elsewhere.
I always wondered about that flyer. My newly acquired Norc M305 shorty shoots pretty decently at 100 yrds if doing 3 shot groups. Here is a 15 shot group from my norinco at 100 yards shooting off a Caldwell Deadshot field pod, iron sights...Chinese surplus. Fifteen seconds between shots, five minutes between mags. In general I'm pretty happy as the first three always groups well. Damn flyers open the groups way out but I aint complaining. I've seen a lot worst.
Sorry for the hi-jack....Rifle is basically stock. I bought the rifle with "only a few rounds through" and previous owner had added a match op rod spring guide of unknown origin. The op rod guide was loose so I peened it. GC unitized by myself and dropped into a USGI birch stock. Bolt has nice even wear on both lugs. Other than that, its stock. To be honest, this is one of my better 15rd groups but all look very similar and bullet holes touching is the norm and that nasty flier is ALWAYS there. My 4" bullseye sit nicely above my front post at 100 yrds so my groups are nice there. At 50yrds, my groups are not quite as cluttered but I think its because my bullseye is too big and i'm guessing the center. At 200yrds though, maybe my eyes, groups open up to a consistent 6" - 8". I do shoot almost every weekend but its been VERY hot lately and taking forever to let the barrel cool down so I still need to shoot in cooler weather and see what its true potential is. I have an NIW JRA bolt that needs to be lapped in but I'm not sure I'll do it until I see a lack of accuracy or a need to with this bolt.
after seeing post #9 , yes, they are flyers.
RememberTheSomme
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
This is the target in question.
Is the upper, left round a flier or not?
Load is 42.0 IMR 4895, CCI primer, 168 gr Speer BTHP match bullet, IVI brass. C.O.A.L. is 2.820"
I'd say that if you heated up your barrel by firing 5 quick rounds into the back stop, and then proceeded to fire five, 5 round groups in a row, loading fairly quickly and firing the battle rifle as quick as you can shoot accurately, as it would be fired in battle, I'm thinking your groups will fill out the mean radius with your flyer. It probably won't get any bigger than your flyers mean radius(the flyer I'd call the exrteme side of the spread, but I'm thinking it would be considered the rifles practical accuracy potential.
A lot of rifles will put 2 rounds very close together, one that comes to mind to me is a sporting rifle the BLR61 in .308Win, two rounds very close and then the third round strays, not a flyer like we like to call it, but the actual mean radius if we continue to fire the rifle at a controlled rate of 5 or more rounds.
These so called flyers show up in my mind in rifles that have mechanical shifts during heating and usually won't go much past on continued firing at a controlled accurate rate. If you want to see 5 rounds in a tight group everytime with your decent hand loads, then you will need a medium to heavy barrel, free floated and the action properly bedded. Here's where your frustration will end.
Even two round groups are okay in my mind in sporting rifles because really the first round from a cold clean barrel is the most important and is what you need to recheck a few times prior to your hunt, and in the field may be followed by a still controlled and accurate second round,...and if it aint down by then its probably on the run and you're starting to throw them down range now on a running target. So its more of your instinctive shooting than MOA at this point.
Take the M-14 for what it is and check out the US Army's accuracy requirements for it using ball NATO ammo, unless you have it set up as a NM rifle by an experienced M14 smith. I think if the rate of fire was slow enough to not have it tip over that mechanical shift that causes the first flyer, it would stay in that nicer group range you believe the rifle is capable of shooting. Your handloads will be better for sure than 762NATO ball especially Canadian 1970's IVI flavour, but it still can never be a HB M70 Winchester or M700 or any other bedded and free floated rifle.
For another example of the mechanical trip I call it, my Remington 7400 in .30/06 is decently accurate. I just a week ago rezeroed after moving my scope rearward and after a few rounds to tune at 200 yards, I fired a 3 shot 2" group of the bench rest from a dirty but ambient barrel. I shot 2 clays on the back stop at around 215 yards. So the old auto is go to go as a deer rifle.
The group however if you look closely, will always be 2 rounds into an inch at 200 and then the flyer lol making it 2" or sometimes 3" . If I fired a 5 shot group it would fill up the 2" to 3" group and open slowly more from the heating and mechanical shifting from the gas system and fore end.
Yeah I hate that Norinco flier. Mine seems to happen on shot #5. You could try doing Five five shot groups, round robin and see what happens to your groups. This topic has come up a few times and one thing people thought might be happening was the bullets being chambered differently from the magazine.
RememberTheSomme
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Yeah I hate that Norinco flier. Mine seems to happen on shot #5. You could try doing Five five shot groups, round robin and see what happens to your groups. This topic has come up a few times and one thing people thought might be happening was the bullets being chambered differently from the magazine.
Geez that's great groups for an M-14. I assume it's a tuned Norinco rifle and not Norinco 762ammo?
Yes that was the best I've shot with it. It is a Hungry Clinic'd 1996 M14S with handloaded 150 grain PRVI FMJs over 40.5 grains of IMR4895 with a Winchester LR primer. 3-9X bushnell scope. Front rest and rear bag.
After getting that group I upgraded the mount to a steel ARMS18 but never really mounted a scope to it since to move forward with load development and find another node with some more velocity. 40.5 is pretty mild IMO.
After getting that group I upgraded the mount to a steel ARMS18 but never really mounted a scope to it since to move forward with load development and find another node with some more velocity. 40.5 is pretty mild IMO.
