BC 2015 Top Guide found guilty

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BY DAN FUMANO, THE PROVINCE JULY 29, 2015
The man named B.C.’s top hunting guide for 2015 was months later found guilty of illegally hunting a grizzly with bait.
In March, Martin Thomas was named by the Guide Outfitters Association of B.C. (GOABC) as the recipient of the Leland Award, recognizing “guide professionalism,” at the association’s annual general meeting in Kelowna.
Two weeks before the meeting, charges were sworn against Thomas in connection with a bear-hunting incident in September 2012 in northern B.C., according to filings in the Fort Nelson court registry.
Thomas was charged with hunting grizzly by placing or using bait, in violation of the Wildlife Act, as well as one count of illegally possessing the dead animal.
In June, Thomas was found guilty of using bait to hunt the bear and fined $3,500, at a trial in provincial court in Fort Nelson. He was acquitted on the second charge of possessing the dead grizzly without authorization. He was working as a guide at the time, and was found to be guilty because his American client shot the grizzly, according to the Conservation Officer Service.
Thomas was unavailable for comment, because he’s working as a guide in a remote part of the province until October.
GOABC executive director Scott Ellis said the charges “came to the attention of the GOABC after he won the award.”
The Leland received by Thomas, Ellis said, is “the highest award bestowed on a hunting guide, it’s quite a competition.”
Ellis said Thomas is “a longtime guide with a good reputation.”
Of the charge, Ellis said: “(It’s) a small distinction, hunting with bait or hunting near bait, in regards to bear hunting. I have some information on this charge, I don’t pretend to have it all.
“From what I understand, there was a carcass on the land and he knew it was there ... and I believe his client shot a bear.
“We were surprised to hear of the charges. He’s a character guy. The details around what happened there aren’t clear, at least to me, not yet. But I know he would not have placed a carcass,” Ellis said.
“Ironically, or coincidentally, he got the Leland Award and charged in the same year.”
The file goes back in court Aug. 10, said Criminal Justice Branch spokesman Neil MacKenzie, “to clarify the court’s intention with respect to disposition of the bear involved in the incident, which had been stuffed and mounted.”
The mounted grizzly was seized by the conservation service during their probe, and remains in their custody pending next month’s court date.
Micah Kneller, a conservation officer in Fort St. John, said: “Any animal that’s harvested unlawfully, we take it seriously.”
Different jurisdictions have different rules, Kneller said, and in B.C. it’s legal to hunt black bears and grizzlies, but not when the animal is over bait or near bait.
The rules are based on two factors, Kneller said. First, is “the fairness of the chase,” he said, the idea of an ethical and legal pursuit of an animal. Some people, Kneller said, view the use of bait as “not really sporting.”

Second, there is a safety element to banning bear-hunting with bait, he said, “to avoid getting bears habituated to garbage and food.”
Kneller said, in his experience, most professional guide outfitters in B.C. operate in a legal and ethical manner.
In this case, Kneller said, the defendant “was found guilty in a court of law. They intentionally hunted the bear over bait, and they know that they’re not allowed to do that. That’s why we kind of shake our heads at it.”
The GOABC Code of Ethics and Standards reads: “A member must be familiar with the Wildlife Act and other related statutes and the regulations enacted there under, and at all times shall be in a good position to advise both employees and customers of their rights and responsibilities while under his jurisdiction.”
The hunting of grizzlies in B.C., while legal, is more controversial than other kinds of hunting, Kneller said.
The Wilderness Committee is one Canadian group “absolutely opposed” to the grizzly hunt, said Joe Foy, the committee’s national campaign director. “Until such time as we get grizzly-bear hunting banned ... people should follow the rules.”
Foy said he isn’t opposed to all hunting, and said in the committee’s work around B.C. they encounter “many communities where that’s what keeps entire families going, the ability to be able to go out and hunt and fish for food.”
“But nobody eats grizzly bears,” he said. “It’s a barbaric, stupid sport that one would have thought we would have banned a long, long time ago. It’s not a sport. It’s a blood sport.”
B.C.’s guide outfitting industry directly employs more than 2,000 people and generates about $116 million of economic activity each year, according to the GOABC.
According to B.C. Stats, about 5,000 non-residents come to B.C. to hunt each year, about 86 per cent of whom are from the U.S.
The species licence for a non-resident to hunt for a grizzly in B.C. is $1,030, the most expensive of the 17 categories.
 
Never hunted grizzly. Question, they did not place the bait but there was a carcass in the area. The courts defined that as hunting over bait. Taking this a step further, if you are aware there is a carcass in the area you are required to leave and hunt elsewhere?
 
Never hunted grizzly. Question, they did not place the bait but there was a carcass in the area. The courts defined that as hunting over bait. Taking this a step further, if you are aware there is a carcass in the area you are required to leave and hunt elsewhere?

Ayup. He knew there was a carcass there (so they say) and hunted there anyway. Dunno how they prove he knew, but they must have been able to.

So yep, he's supposed to pack up and move on.

Cheers
Trev
 
It's not uncommon for guides to use moose carcasses to hunt grizzly. Just hard to prove. :)

Sometimes the clients know beforehand (they shot the moose 3 days ago) and sometimes they don't (the group before them shot the moose and the guide has been keeping tabs on it until a grizzly shows up)

But it's all illegal in BC
 
It's not uncommon for guides to use moose carcasses to hunt grizzly. Just hard to prove. :)

Sometimes the clients know beforehand (they shot the moose 3 days ago) and sometimes they don't (the group before them shot the moose and the guide has been keeping tabs on it until a grizzly shows up)

But it's all illegal in BC



So, if you have a gut pile, quite substantial with a moose, and a Grizz shows up, you're baiting ? :confused: Sounds like it could be a mine field.

Grizz
 
So, if you have a gut pile, quite substantial with a moose, and a Grizz shows up, you're baiting ? :confused: Sounds like it could be a mine field.

Grizz


If you have placed the carcasss there (like a gutpile) or you are aware the carcass is there, and you choose to hunt in the proximity of the gutpile/carcass it's considered baiting.

If you are glassing away and you see a grizzly 2km away rummaging about, you put astalk on him and shoot him, then only then find that he is on a moose carcass, that's not considered baiting.

As far as I know. :)
 
How do you prove prior knowledge for sure?

Seems like a lot of grey that must be sifted through and still may not provide a reliable answer.

A side from openly admitting knowledge how else can be charged and convicted?
 
I guess it must be illegal to hunt grizzly on a salmon stream, a berry patch or how about an ant infested deadfall as well then...If they don't want a grizzly harvest why not just shut it down already...Jeez!
 
It is just another law that stops honest people from the same opportunities that continue to be enjoyed by the not so honest.
And as far as knowing the bait was there, it seems to be another case of where the accused has to prove that he/she did not know there was bait in the area, thus proving their innocence, rather than the crown having to prove guilt.
 
How do you prove prior knowledge for sure?

Seems like a lot of grey that must be sifted through and still may not provide a reliable answer.

A side from openly admitting knowledge how else can be charged and convicted?


I would assume that someone talked about it, or it was filmed and viewed by someone that called in the poaching activity.

You might be able to get a court transcript of how the Crown proved beyond reasonable doubt that the guide was engaging in illegal hunting.
 
I guess it must be illegal to hunt grizzly on a salmon stream, a berry patch or how about an ant infested deadfall as well then...If they don't want a grizzly harvest why not just shut it down already...Jeez!

As far as I know, nobody has been charged with those examples.
 
So another Q: if you know there is a gut pile/carcass from another kill; how far away are you required to hunt to "not be hunting over bait"?

1 mile? 2 miles? or is it the CO discretion. I could see this being pretty darn difficult to manage if you were a guide and had several moose/deer clients successfully hunt animals in the area where you (or others) were going to be bear hunting
 
Depends on the range of yer shewt'in iruns?

Maybe them Go crowds should be mandated to mark a GPS way point of their and clients
kill sites so there isn't any discrepancies?

Marked on their cancellation tags in ink with the time, date, signature and such.
Then photo'd and emailed, couriered, storked, pigeoned, ponied expressed to their
local CO detachment.

Then restricted to this MU for grizz hunting.
Never know how many tousand yard shots these folk are capable of doing.

Or cancel their grizz tags when a moose/elk/deer/yote tag is claimed in their territory area.
 
Foy said he isn’t opposed to all hunting, and said in the committee’s work around B.C. they encounter “many communities where that’s what keeps entire families going, the ability to be able to go out and hunt and fish for food.”
“But nobody eats grizzly bears,” he said. “It’s a barbaric, stupid sport that one would have thought we would have banned a long, long time ago. It’s not a sport. It’s a blood sport.”

This is sounding like a familiar theme today, presented by yet another misinformed high thinker. "Its not sport, its a blood sport." Hunting without blood is called photography dummy. If the grizzly population supports a hunt, then it should continue, if it doesn't, it should be postponed until numbers recover. Sounds a bit like the definition of baiting in BC needs to be revisited.
 
"There are more grizzly bears in BC now, than there were in the years following WW2."
While this is my quote, it is shared by non other than Gary Shelton, considered the grizzly bear expert, who has written the several books on grizzly attacks, and has trained ####less people who work in grizzly country, how to keep from getting chewed up.
When I was writing my book, Outposts and Bushplanes, I wrote the above quote in the manuscript. Then, Gary Shelton came out with his first book and the near identical statement!
I immediately contacted Gary and sent him a copy of that section of my manuscript, which showed it was written before I saw his book. Had I not done that, it would appear that I had just copied it from Gary Shelton's book.
We had considerable contact and phone calls on the subject.
 
Foy said he isn’t opposed to all hunting, and said in the committee’s work around B.C. they encounter “many communities where that’s what keeps entire families going, the ability to be able to go out and hunt and fish for food.”
“But nobody eats grizzly bears,” he said. “It’s a barbaric, stupid sport that one would have thought we would have banned a long, long time ago. It’s not a sport. It’s a blood sport.”

This is sounding like a familiar theme today, presented by yet another misinformed high thinker. "Its not sport, its a blood sport." Hunting without blood is called photography dummy. If the grizzly population supports a hunt, then it should continue, if it doesn't, it should be postponed until numbers recover. Sounds a bit like the definition of baiting in BC needs to be revisited.

Divide and conquer. Our opponents are adept at it.
 
Different jurisdictions have different rules, Kneller said, and in B.C. it’s legal to hunt black bears and grizzlies, but not when the animal is over bait or near bait.
The rules are based on two factors, Kneller said. First, is “the fairness of the chase,” he said, the idea of an ethical and legal pursuit of an animal. Some people, Kneller said, view the use of bait as “not really sporting.”

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't baiting deer legal in BC?
 
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