'What lion?' Zimbabweans ask, amid global Cecil circus

The economics to the local economy via hunting dollars most likely saved several human lives???? Ask those retard protesters if given a choice would they use hunting dollars to save one baby whale or their own baby............... Actually some of them might choose their own baby!!!
 
They destroyed the lions tracking collar after they killed it... So they knew they were in the wrong... Not to mention this hunter has had borderline issues poaching bears in the USA .

Supporting this guy gives legitimate hunters a bad name...

Look at it this way. Imagine deer are endangered in Canada. Chinese hunters come here and obtain questionable permets to hunt deer on the edge of our provincial parks. They take the deer heads as trophy's back to China and leave the meat to rot in the sun. Sound responsible?

The fact that the country where this lion was killed has a lot of issues and problems, or the fact that farmers there shoot lions, is irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact this guy was in the wrong. He is not an ethical, legal, or respectful hunter. Period. I have guns, and a hunting license... So I am clearly not against either.

The fact that on CGN, the most pro gun, and pro hunting resource you can find, isnt in support of this guy should tell us something.
 
honz said:
This week it's Cecil the Lion,
Last week it's Whaling in the Faroe Islands,
The week before that it's the Stampede / Trampede chick
The week before that it's some other equally as trivial subject of uproar.

Yet, nobody opens their eyes to the world right around them.
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^^^This...World Health Org estimates on average over 500 children aged 5 and under die every day in Zimbabwe...yet on TV I see Jimmy Kimmel crying over a single lion. some f'n perspective would be nice.
 
K-Roc said:
They destroyed the lions tracking collar after they killed it... So they knew they were in the wrong... Not to mention this hunter has had borderline issues poaching bears in the USA .

Supporting this guy gives legitimate hunters a bad name...

Look at it this way. Imagine deer are endangered in Canada. Chinese hunters come here and obtain questionable permets to hunt deer on the edge of our provincial parks. They take the deer heads as trophy's back to China and leave the meat to rot in the sun. Sound responsible?

The fact that the country where this lion was killed has a lot of issues and problems, or the fact that farmers there shoot lions, is irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact this guy was in the wrong. He is not an ethical, legal, or respectful hunter. Period. I have guns, and a hunting license... So I am clearly not against either.

The fact that on CGN, the most pro gun, and pro hunting resource you can find, isnt in support of this guy should tell us something.
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After he shot the lion, and tracked it until they found it, then they reacted to finding the collar - I do notice that they followed through and tracked the thing far longer than a "poacher" typically tracks something.

"poaching bears"? I though that it was one - and if it was a bear in Minnesota, it was a black bear - and there might be a number of fellows here who have shoveled - or put the meat in the freezer - it is what most cop buddies will advise - but it is poaching.

Lions are endangered now? - don't think so.

I think that if I paid that much for a tag - 70,000 CDN? - I might feel a little entitled to shoot a beast - and if I understand correctly, it was outside the fence - and baiting is how you get near such an animal in that country.

Where does the park - or whatever it is - end? Were they hunting in the park? How does one know that an animal is "from" the park? Painted orange or blue? Now there is an idea - paint your park animals a different colour so no one will want the hide. Are some animals from the park and go out - and some animals from outside the park that go in?

Ethics and Respectfulness are kinda tough scales to rate well on when you are into killing things - someone somewhere just can't bear to think that we enjoy killing gophers or rabbits or whatever. When we say that we kill deer, some will say that you are a trophy hunter and all you care about is your feeble ego - and it just gets worse from there.

He would get more disrespect from me for his stupid behavior with an employee - especially if the girl was my kin - than for ditching the collar.

I don't remember - what did he do illegal again?

The guy has taken some beastly beasts with an arrow - I'm impressed - I hit a squirrel with an arrow.
 
I'm not a vegan, actually I like meat a lot. (Btw, do you eat lion??)
I'm not a leftie, actually I fought against rotten communists (real battle, you know, with ... guns. What about you? It's easier shooting at a zebra; it doesn't shoot back with an AK-47.)
I love my dog very much and I love animals. I consider though fair for hunters to go and collect their food from them.

However, I totally oppose any kind of "trophy hunting" (which is nothing but an euphemism for "killing for the pleasure of killing"); especially for animals which numbers are small or present no real use for the hunter. So, with or without knowledge of a protected lion, that dentist is not much of a man.

And, I feel ashamed that some Canadian gun owners dare to defend that guy and harm in this way our gun owner community and in particular the normal Canadian hunters.

It is time to end once and for all trophy hunting!

And no, I'm not going away on my own from here. You should be the ones leaving this forum. I don't know if you realised but you are a very small group with whom the huge majority of Gun Nuts don't want to deal much.

(Of course, I realise some of you will cry to the site moderators to shut me down. Do it. I don't care. I don't carry any shame.)
 
Karpenter said:
I'm not a vegan, actually I like meat a lot. (Btw, do you eat lion??)
I'm not a leftie, actually I fought against rotten communists (real battle, you know, with ... guns. What about you? It's easier shooting at a zebra; it doesn't shoot back with an AK-47.)
I love my dog very much and I love animals. I consider though fair for hunters to go and collect their food from them.

However, I totally oppose any kind of "trophy hunting" (which is nothing but an euphemism for "killing for the pleasure of killing"); especially for animals which numbers are small or present no real use for the hunter. So, with or without knowledge of a protected lion, that dentist is not much of a man.

And, I feel ashamed that some Canadian gun owners dare to defend that guy and harm in this way our gun owner community and in particular the normal Canadian hunters.

It is time to end once and for all trophy hunting!

And no, I'm not going away on my own from here. You should be the ones leaving this forum. I don't know if you realised but you are a very small group with whom the huge majority of Gun Nuts don't want to deal much.

(Of course, I realise some of you will cry to the site moderators to shut me down. Do it. I don't care. I don't carry any shame.)
Click to expand...

Honestly, nobody really gives a flying **ck what you think....move on and have a good day!
 
Karpenter said:
I'm not a vegan, actually I like meat a lot. (Btw, do you eat lion??)
I'm not a leftie, actually I fought against rotten communists (real battle, you know, with ... guns. What about you? It's easier shooting at a zebra; it doesn't shoot back with an AK-47.)
I love my dog very much and I love animals. I consider though fair for hunters to go and collect their food from them.

However, I totally oppose any kind of "trophy hunting" (which is nothing but an euphemism for "killing for the pleasure of killing"); especially for animals which numbers are small or present no real use for the hunter. So, with or without knowledge of a protected lion, that dentist is not much of a man.

And, I feel ashamed that some Canadian gun owners dare to defend that guy and harm in this way our gun owner community and in particular the normal Canadian hunters.

It is time to end once and for all trophy hunting!

And no, I'm not going away on my own from here. You should be the ones leaving this forum. I don't know if you realised but you are a very small group with whom the huge majority of Gun Nuts don't want to deal much.

(Of course, I realise some of you will cry to the site moderators to shut me down. Do it. I don't care. I don't carry any shame.)
Click to expand...


Realise - really?
 
Karpenter said:
I'm not a vegan, actually I like meat a lot. (Btw, do you eat lion??)
I'm not a leftie, actually I fought against rotten communists (real battle, you know, with ... guns. What about you? It's easier shooting at a zebra; it doesn't shoot back with an AK-47.)
I love my dog very much and I love animals. I consider though fair for hunters to go and collect their food from them.

However, I totally oppose any kind of "trophy hunting" (which is nothing but an euphemism for "killing for the pleasure of killing"); especially for animals which numbers are small or present no real use for the hunter. So, with or without knowledge of a protected lion, that dentist is not much of a man.

And, I feel ashamed that some Canadian gun owners dare to defend that guy and harm in this way our gun owner community and in particular the normal Canadian hunters.

It is time to end once and for all trophy hunting!

And no, I'm not going away on my own from here. You should be the ones leaving this forum. I don't know if you realised but you are a very small group with whom the huge majority of Gun Nuts don't want to deal much.

(Of course, I realise some of you will cry to the site moderators to shut me down. Do it. I don't care. I don't carry any shame.)
Click to expand...

Great first post...:wave:
 
blargon said:
Great first post...:wave:
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More to come. Stay tuned! (BTW, you should pay attention to the content: dispute it, support it, ignore it, whatever. The number of postings someone has around here is (oh, should be) irrelevant. You may meet someone who may have written books but ... has not posted yet on CGN. Come on, let's be serious.)
 
Karpenter said:
You may meet someone who may have written books but ... has not posted yet on CGN. Come on, let's be serious.)
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OK, let's be serious.
Your first post erroneously assumes trophy hunters waste the meat of the animals they kill.
Care to tell us why you think this is so? (keeping in mind trophy hunting doesn't start and end with our recently departed friend Cecil)
 
Karpenter said:
More to come. Stay tuned! (BTW, you should pay attention to the content: dispute it, support it, ignore it, whatever. The number of postings someone has around here is (oh, should be) irrelevant. You may meet someone who may have written books but ... has not posted yet on CGN. Come on, let's be serious.)
Click to expand...

Just joined this month, your first post is attacking hunters, and then you say gun nuts dont want to deal with trophy hunters. How would you know anything about what goes on here after only being a day or a week. Stick around a decade then form your opinions.
 
Here and on wider forums like Twitter I see a frequent failure across the spectrum to distinguish between legal and illegal trophy hunting. It's possible to support the former and condemn the latter. They should be dealt with separately. Supporting trophy hunting, while not as acceptable to the non-hunting public as hunting for food, isn't an extreme position. If you're against it, fine, make your arguments, but don't confuse support of trophy hunting with support for illegal hunts.
 
Xplorer said:
Too bad they couldn't get an official interview. Most people in our country don't know what's going on in current events either.

I'm waiting to see a similar article that talks with actual officials.

This foaming at the mouth over this incident is scary stuff though... glad most of the people freaking out are anti gun haha.
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Like the government that wants him extradited back to face charges?

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/zimbabwe-to-america-hand-over-the-u-s-dentist-who-poached-cecil-so-that-he-be-made-accountable

Zimbabwe to America: Hand over the U.S. dentist who poached Cecil ‘so that he be made accountable’

HARARE — Zimbabwe has begun to seek the extradition of an American dentist who killed a lion that was lured out of a national park and shot with a bow and a gun, a Cabinet minister said Friday.

“Unfortunately it was too late to apprehend the foreign poacher as he had already absconded to his country of origin,” Oppah Muchinguri, Zimbabwe’s environment, water and climate minister, told a news conference. “We are appealing to the responsible authorities for his extradition to Zimbabwe so that he be made accountable.”

Zimbabwe’s announcement comes a day after the the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service said it was investigating the circumstances surrounding the killing of the lion by Walter Palmer, an American dentist and hunter.

“That investigation will take us wherever the facts lead,” said Edward Grace, deputy chief of law enforcement at the agency. “At this point in time, however, multiple efforts to contact Dr. Walter Palmer have been unsuccessful.”

Citing what it called alarming trends in illicit hunting and poaching, the U.N. General Assembly adopted a resolution Thursday that supporters say would be the start of a global effort to tackle illegal poaching and trafficking of wildlife.

In an address to the General Assembly, Harald Braun, the permanent representative of Germany to the United Nations, said illicit hunting had become a pressing global issue. He described the poaching of an elephant for its tusks near a national park in South Africa this week, and the killings of more than 700 rhinoceroses for their horns in South Africa this year.

“The time to act is now,” Braun said. “No one country, region or agency working alone will be able to succeed.”

On Tuesday, Palmer issued a statement saying he relied on his guides to ensure the hunt was legal. Two Zimbabweans, a professional hunter and a farm owner, have been arrested in the lion killing that garnered worldwide condemnation.

The Zimbabwean cabinet minister said both Palmer and professional hunter Theo Bronkhorst violated the Parks and Wildlife Act, which controls the use of bow and arrow hunting. He said Palmer, who reportedly paid $50,000 to hunt the lion, also violated the act through financing an illegal hunt. The landowner violated the act because he “allowed a hunt to be conducted without a quota and necessary permit,” Muchinguri said.

“There has been an outcry,” Muchinguri said. “Almost 500,000 people are calling for his extradition and we need this support. We want him tried in Zimbabwe because he violated our laws.

“I have already consulted with the authorities within the police force who are responsible for arresting the criminal. We have certain processes we have to follow. Police should take the first step to approach the prosecutor general who will approach the Americans. The processes have already started.”

Muchinguri accused Palmer of “a well-orchestrated agenda which would tarnish the image of Zimbabwe and further strain the relationship between Zimbabwe and the USA.”

Palmer is believed to have shot the lion with a bow on July 1 outside Hwange National Park, after it was lured on to private land with a carcass of an animal laid out on a car. Some 40 hours later, the wounded cat was tracked down and Palmer allegedly killed it with a gun.

Palmer, 55, is a dentist in the Minneapolis suburb of Bloomington. In a note to his patients, he wrote: “I understand and respect that not everyone shares the same views on hunting,” adding that he would resume his dental practice “as soon as possible.”

With files from The New York Times
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and the guide's words;

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/next-on-the-hit-list-for-cecils-killer-was-a-giant-elephant-but-guide-couldnt-find-one-big-enough
Next on the hit list for Cecil’s killer was a giant elephant, but guide couldn’t find one big enough


The man who shot Cecil the lion wanted to bag a giant elephant after killing the protected big cat — but was unable to find one large enough for his liking, his guide disclosed Thursday.

Breaking his silence for the first time, Theo Bronkhorst gave The Daily Telegraph a detailed account of the hunt that ended in Cecil’s death, and said things had gone wrong from the start.

On Wednesday, Bronkhorst appeared before magistrates in Hwange, northwestern Zimbabwe, and was remanded on bail. He is forbidden from continuing his hunting business, which he has run since 1992, and has been left devastated by the international fury directed at him since The Daily Telegraph disclosed that his client Walter Palmer, a U.S. dentist, had fired the arrow that felled the protected lion.

Police have visited Bronkhorst’s home with a search warrant and took away several hunting rifles to check they are legal.

His account of how Cecil came to be killed suggests there was confusion from the outset of Palmer’s trip. “This hunt?… Oh no, it went wrong from the beginning,” Bronkhorst said, speaking from his home in Zimbabwe’s second city of Bulawayo.

“When Dr. Palmer arrived in Bulawayo, his luggage was missing and I was dashing around looking for it. So we were late getting ready to go,” he said. “And we were never meant to hunt on the land where this lion was shot. At the last minute I had to divert from a concession [hunting area] about eight miles away.”

Palmer, an enthusiastic game hunter, paid 35,000 pounds ($70,000) for his permit to shoot a lion.

The killing of Cecil — which had been tagged with a collar as part of a research project run by Oxford University — has caused an international outcry that has forced the dentist into hiding.

The land on which Cecil was shot was a farm called Antoinette, which borders Hwange national park. It is currently occupied by Honest Ndlovu — who appeared in court alongside Bronkhorst, but has not been charged with illegal hunting. He is expected to turn against Bronkhorst, and testify on behalf of the state.

Bronkhorst told The Daily Telegraph that, on the night of July 1, he was accompanied by his son Zane, also a professional hunter; Palmer; and a scout sent by Ndlovu.

“We set off quite late, with the sun down, and found the carcass of an elephant which we dragged and moved into the long grass and used for bait,” he said. “We then established the ‘tree blind’ (a camouflaged hide made of tree branches and grass).

“Once we were established, and it was quiet, we first saw a lioness go past. And then a huge male — Cecil — came into view behind her. He was a magnificent animal.

“The client then fired using a bow and arrow, and it went away into the long grass. This was about 10 p.m.” Bronkhorst said he had a sense that the lion was hit, but could not be sure.

“Bow and arrow wounds are different to gun wounds, and they don’t show much. But we couldn’t do anything that night.”

The four men went home for the night before returning to search for Cecil at dawn the next day.

“I was worried about the lion and what had happened,” said Bronkhorst. “We got there about 9 a.m., and we found it and it was wounded, and the client then shot it, with his bow and arrow, and killed it.”

It was then the hunters went over to it, and saw it had a collar.

“I was devastated,” said Bronkhorst, who immediately saw that he had killed a protected lion. “I could not have seen the collar at night. We would never shoot a collared animal. I was devastated, and so was the client, we were both upset, and I panicked and took it off and put it in a tree.

“I should have taken it to Parks (the Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management Authority), I admit that.

“So we did what had to be done. We took the head and skin, as the client had paid for the trophy. I went to Parks and reported what had happened. I wish I had taken the collar.

I was devastated, and so was the client, we were both upset

“We then went back to my place near Hwange. The client asked if we would find him an elephant larger than 63 pounds (referring to the weight of one tusk), which is a very large elephant, but I told him I would not be able to find one so big, so the client left the next day and went to Bulawayo for the night and then flew out (to Johannesburg) midday the following day.

“He was only here for a few days. He shot the lion he wanted to shoot, he paid for the trophy, which is the skull and skin.

“I took it to Bulawayo where we were curing it, prior to it going to a taxidermist for export to the U.S. where it would be assembled and mounted. They do that better there than we do it here.”

Bronkhorst said his lawyer advised him after the opening of the court case to hand over the head and skin to the parks authority. “I never knew anything about Cecil, this famous lion,” he said. “I only found out from the media. I would not have known him anyway.

“There were four other collared lions shot in the same area this year. If I had been able to take the client where we were due to be, this would not have happened.”

Bronkhorst started his hunting business after being violently evicted from his game farm in central Zimbabwe, as part of the Mugabe government’s land grab.

“I don’t want to shoot any animals. I do it because it is the only way I can earn a living,” said Bronkhorst, who is married with two grown-up sons.

“I am a farmer. But I lost my farm in 2000 and I am forced to hunt, but have only done so five times in the last year. I like to lead a quiet life.

“I like breeding game, and am presently trying to increase the number of sable in Zimbabwe.”

In the wake of the furor over Cecil, the United Nations yesterday passed a resolution committing countries to intensify the fight against wildlife crime.

The resolution treats the issue as an aspect of organized crime, urging law enforcement agencies to use anti-money laundering measures. It also encourages countries to “adopt effective measures to prevent and counter the serious problem of crimes that have an impact on the environment.”

Steven Broad, executive director of Traffic, which monitors the trade in wildlife, said: “This is an historic day — the world has sent an unequivocal and collective signal that ending wildlife crime is a top priority.

His group estimates that as many as 30,000 elephants are killed each year for ivory tusks in Africa. Rhino poaching in South Africa last year hit a record high, when 1,215 were killed.
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Karpenter said:
I'm not a vegan, actually I like meat a lot. (Btw, do you eat lion??)
I'm not a leftie, actually I fought against rotten communists (real battle, you know, with ... guns. What about you? It's easier shooting at a zebra; it doesn't shoot back with an AK-47.)
I love my dog very much and I love animals. I consider though fair for hunters to go and collect their food from them.

However, I totally oppose any kind of "trophy hunting" (which is nothing but an euphemism for "killing for the pleasure of killing"); especially for animals which numbers are small or present no real use for the hunter. So, with or without knowledge of a protected lion, that dentist is not much of a man.

And, I feel ashamed that some Canadian gun owners dare to defend that guy and harm in this way our gun owner community and in particular the normal Canadian hunters.

It is time to end once and for all trophy hunting!

And no, I'm not going away on my own from here. You should be the ones leaving this forum. I don't know if you realised but you are a very small group with whom the huge majority of Gun Nuts don't want to deal much.

(Of course, I realise some of you will cry to the site moderators to shut me down. Do it. I don't care. I don't carry any shame.)
Click to expand...

The CGN hunting section of the board will allow any type of hunting posts (trophy or not) as long as it is done within the law. If you don't like it feel free to move on to another website.

What we will not allow is people who are offended by certain types of hunting that come here just to troll and stir the pot.
 
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