M1A vs M14

I like the jar holder option on your stock. ;)

sclifford said:
Well I am no expert to chime in, but I always wanted the Springfield.... Just because of the history, the name and in my mind quality. But to spend 2,000 on it, I thought against it.

So I bought the norinco.

I have shot both, and I like both. I would say the springfield is nicer (but I think thats is because I knew which was which so was influenced by that)

Now the other side of the story, I decided to put money into my norinco. Archangel stock, troy industries battle rail, bipod, and scope +a few other goodies.... now it is up to 2,000! was not planing to do that but I did. Yeah things happen like that!

For accuracy of my norinco, I can constantly shoot a toonie at 100 yards (sometime takes a few). But I do love it,
[URL=http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/stevecliffordclifford10/media/norinco_zpsd23eb370.jpg.html][/URL]
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sunray said:
9:01AM is the middle of the night for us big kids, boy. You are correct in your glib, forum rule violating way. An M-14 is a prohibited firearm. An M1A is a sporting rifle that looks like an M-14. An M305 is a copy of a copy.
You want to spend about 2 grand for a rifle that needs no up grading? Or about $500 for one that does?
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Wow, I got a rise out of Sunray!!! A rare occurrence! What forum rule did I break BTW?
Predicting you would tell us the difference between a M1A and an M14?
Since when did stating the obvious become a forum rule violation?!
 
sunray said:
9:01AM is the middle of the night for us big kids, boy. You are correct in your glib, forum rule violating way. An M-14 is a prohibited firearm. An M1A is a sporting rifle that looks like an M-14. An M305 is a copy of a copy.
You want to spend about 2 grand for a rifle that needs no up grading? Or about $500 for one that does?
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Your comments make sense.

But.....

I recently bought a M1A. In a nice Boyd's walnut stock. I believe it's a "standard". It has a NM front sight, but the rear is 1/2 moa click.....

The fit and finish is night and day compared to the offerings from China. But I have a Nork that shoots better after re-indexing the barrel, adding a op-rod guide, USGI spring, unitizing the gas system and adding NM sights. Slapped that into a USGI Fiberglas stock.....

The Nork shoots an honest 3" at 100 with the irons. It started out as a honest 6" gun.....

The Springfield is 4" with hand loads using the irons as well.

It is quite possible that after unitizing the gas system and changing the sights the M1A will out shoot the Nork, but I have about $1000 into the Nork, and $2300 into the M1A.

If I do the mods I'm thinking about to the Springer, I'm going to be closer to $3K.....

I honestly think that the Nork is the better "buy"..... Even if you are paying a smith to do some mods....
 
Best bang for the buck is definitely the norc. The springfield has better finish but you pay a premium for one. It seems to buy bragging rights for some as well.
 
Bought the Springfield new/used from Epps, because of the perceived build quality, boy was I wrong. I took it to a clinic the guy found 4 or 5 problems from 10 feet away, bolt roller contact indexing, trigger pin walking and more, he fixed it no issue. Took it to the range the next day, fired 20 rounds and the bolt jammed. Hard bolt bridge contact, chunks of metal missing, I needed a hammer to get it out. Called Epps no warranty because it was new/used, called the Canadian service center, bankrupt, contacted numerous "gurus" who were about as useful as t#ts on a bull, contacted Springfield who stalled for a few months and then said they would only look at it if I sent it in at my own expense ($350) one way. So sad to say I parted it out. Bad experience all the way round, just buy a Norinco and shoot it.
 
espresso604 said:
Bought the Springfield new/used from Epps, because of the perceived build quality, boy was I wrong. I took it to a clinic the guy found 4 or 5 problems from 10 feet away, bolt roller contact indexing, trigger pin walking and more, he fixed it no issue. Took it to the range the next day, fired 20 rounds and the bolt jammed. Hard bolt bridge contact, chunks of metal missing, I needed a hammer to get it out. Called Epps no warranty because it was new/used, called the Canadian service center, bankrupt, contacted numerous "gurus" who were about as useful as t#ts on a bull, contacted Springfield who stalled for a few months and then said they would only look at it if I sent it in at my own expense ($350) one way. So sad to say I parted it out. Bad experience all the way round, just buy a Norinco and shoot it.
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All the razzing I've given Springfield owners over the years, in fun of course we both enjoy the same platform type, but I would never have imagined so many things on one Springfield rifle,..really.
 
espresso604 said:
Bought the Springfield new/used from Epps, because of the perceived build quality, boy was I wrong. I took it to a clinic the guy found 4 or 5 problems from 10 feet away, bolt roller contact indexing, trigger pin walking and more, he fixed it no issue. Took it to the range the next day, fired 20 rounds and the bolt jammed. Hard bolt bridge contact, chunks of metal missing, I needed a hammer to get it out. Called Epps no warranty because it was new/used, called the Canadian service center, bankrupt, contacted numerous "gurus" who were about as useful as t#ts on a bull, contacted Springfield who stalled for a few months and then said they would only look at it if I sent it in at my own expense ($350) one way. So sad to say I parted it out. Bad experience all the way round, just buy a Norinco and shoot it.
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This^^ is why when I purchased my SA from Prophet River I "got it in writing" (via email) that any problems I had they would take care of.....

It really sucks you had that many issues. Unfortunately you ain't the only one who's had issues with SA..... Lots of threads on M-14.com, those owners at least we're in the U.S., so back and forth with SA is a non-issue.....
 
sclifford said:
Well I am no expert to chime in, but I always wanted the Springfield.... Just because of the history, the name and in my mind quality. But to spend 2,000 on it, I thought against it.

So I bought the norinco.

I have shot both, and I like both. I would say the springfield is nicer (but I think thats is because I knew which was which so was influenced by that)

Now the other side of the story, I decided to put money into my norinco. Archangel stock, troy industries battle rail, bipod, and scope +a few other goodies.... now it is up to 2,000! was not planing to do that but I did. Yeah things happen like that!

For accuracy of my norinco, I can constantly shoot a toonie at 100 yards (sometime takes a few). But I do love it,
[URL=http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/stevecliffordclifford10/media/norinco_zpsd23eb370.jpg.html][/URL]
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You are aware that there is no connection between the company named Sprigfield Armory and the original US Government Springfield Armory where the M14 was developed
 
No one seems to have mentioned that the starting price of one rifle is about 1/4 of the other. Even after three times the starting price in upgrades and proven performance, the other rifle is still untested and unimproved. To repeat Tactical Teacher, don't buy one buy two.

Don't let the hype confuse you, the USGI M14 was no where near perfect even when it was new in service.
 
when i was deciding between these 2 i heard nothing but good things however about the JRA Rockola M14.

Looks like a great gun for same $ as springfield's offerings and far less complaints to be found.
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
Don't let the hype confuse you, the USGI M14 was no where near perfect even when it was new in service.
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They all get some hype when they are new in service, none of them live up to the hype.


leonard said:
when i was deciding between these 2 i heard nothing but good things however about the JRA Rockola M14.

Looks like a great gun for same $ as springfield's offerings and far less complaints to be found.
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There are far less JRA rifles out there, and I have read a number of complaints...
 
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RememberTheSomme said:
All the razzing I've given Springfield owners over the years, in fun of course we both enjoy the same platform type, but I would never have imagined so many things on one Springfield rifle,..really.
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Yup, really. Unfortunately it was me that gave him the bad news.... More than once I'm afraid.
Over the years it's happened over and over at my m14 clinics but no one ever wants to talk about it or be the one to admit they got bit by springfield.
No one heeds the warnings figuring I was just some norinco fanboy hating on springfields.
I won't own one of those rifles period and I'm sad to admit, my position comes at the expense of those who got lemons.
 
Frost Cracked said:
Thank you for the very detailed information so far. It's given me a bit to think about... To make a great rifle out of a Norinco it seems I'd be in for a lot of upgrading and parts sourcing. To get a Springfield doesn't seem to guarantee I'll get a super-great rifle either, however.

That and a lot of the parts for upgrades and stuff, like the Rockola are in the states... so getting it up here involves fees and paperwork. Having built 3 Lee Enfields and a M1 Garand (not bragging or anything, just saying I've built a couple rifles so I know what it's like), I may want to just buy the springfield, and save the time and additional costs with having to build, and smith a Norc up to high end quality....
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I was in the same boat, Frost. For the most part, I am a purest and if I was a M1A fanatic, I would search high and low for one that was made in the 1950-1960s. Fortunately I am just a fan and not a fanatic so after shooting my friend's Norinco at the range last week all my fears of owning a Chinese made product was set aside. It wasn't as bad as people claim. I did a bit more digging and found out that in the late 1960s all the tooling for the M1A from the original Springfield Armoury was sold to Norinco. This may not mean much to the average person but as former Tool and Die maker (in one of my many past lives), this was a game changer about how I view the Norinco m305.

My fears were further relinquished after learning that there is a general consensus that the Norinco receiver is stronger and much more desired than the Springfield one. So I started looking on line and within a day or two... The M14 gods were truly on my side. 1.5 hours from where I live there was a m305/m14 with a match grade barrel and sporting JAE-100 stock... are you ready for this... $500. The guy who was selling it was an older retired gunsmith who no longer wants to shoot a .308. He was ex military like myself and after sharing some war stories we did a virtual handshake and I sent my buddy to pick it up yesterday. It is still over at my buddy's house now but he was like... Damn! Can't wait to shoot it. Moral of the story is that they are still out there. Sometimes you need a bit of patience. I think I just got lucky this time. Lucky in the sense that if I did get a Lemmon, the match grade barrel could be parted out for $300, the JAE stock for $700, the receiver for... etc. Sorry to gloat but I am sure you will get the chance also, Frost. Good luck in your search on whichever company you decide to go with.
 
Garaldtao said:
I did a bit more digging and found out that in the late 1960s all the tooling for the M1A from the original Springfield Armoury was sold to Norinco.
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This is a very common misconception for some reason. The tooling was sold to Taiwan, not PRC. Norinco reverse-engineered their tooling from captured rifles they obtained.

EDIT, actually IIRC the reverse engineered rifles were an earlier set made with the intention of giving them to Philippine rebels, the current batch were designed in concert with a US manufacturer that supplied the plans so that they could be built for import. It's been a while since I read up on this stuff...
 
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Pop said:
This is a very common misconception for some reason. The tooling was sold to Taiwan, not PRC. Norinco reverse-engineered their tooling from captured rifles they obtained.

EDIT, actually IIRC the reverse engineered rifles were an earlier set made with the intention of giving them to Philippine rebels, the current batch were designed in concert with a US manufacturer that supplied the plans so that they could be built for import. It's been a while since I read up on this stuff...
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Thanks for the correction, Pop. Again, fan and not a fanatic. And is it true what everyone say about the receiver. Still think I got a great deal.
 
There were no "civillian semi auto only" versions of the M14 made in the 60's and 70's
Springfield armory inc or SAI , stole the name from the springfield armory (US military installation) or SA.
They did this as a marketting ploy.

As for the china buying US tooling LOL that myth just won't die LOL
TAIWAN got US tooling when it was actioned off by the US contract manufacturers such as TRW, H&R, Saco Lowell, winchester and springfield armory/US military.
I had an oportunity to buy one of the 5 M14/M1garand armourers tool sets on 4 pallets, some 10 years ago. Still trying to track down that guy as he probably still has it collecting dust. Hydraulic actuated barrel installs anyone?
 
did we forget about elmer ballance?- seems to me he fielded a few back in the 60's- just after the closure of springfield armory back in 68( government)
 
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