Whats with all the CZ858 hype?

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CanadianBaconPancakes

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I seen post, after post on the dealer fourms people asking for the CZ858 ( that i understood sold for 800$ when it became prohib).... Isnt the VZ58 identical but with the trigger gremlin fixed, new production and a 5 year warrenty. Is there a reason I should buy a surplus CZ at the 800$ price point over a new VZ58 at 999- 1060? Are the materials used differnt? I feel like I am missing something here.
 
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Do you want a true military classic? Or a commercial variant?

CSA rifles are commercially made ‘new rifles’. They are not military grade as far as quality (lots of people had problems with parts wearing out – I think this has been fixed with newer generations), nor are they in true military format (commercial plastic furniture versus lovely Beaver Barff), and some of their rifles come with plastic magazines.

The CZ858 is a true military rifle (hence why it was almost relegated to the prohibited category). Everything except for the ‘receiver’ is military issue. For example, all the parts, furniture, finish (grey enamel), metal magazines, pouches, etc. are as issued and original. Heck if you have a armour’s box all the parts in there will fit a CZ858 except for 1x part (full auto piece), whereas all these parts will not necessarily fit in a CSA variant.

Since the Czech’s made the VZ24 – they have been renowned for making very excellently built military grade rifles that can suffer abuse – hence why the CZ858 is the Cadillac of 58’s. They didn’t sacrifice quality for profits – especially during the Cold War – attention to detail and an excellent product was the result.

The CSA is still a nice rifle, but in my mind it would be like comparing a FAMAE SG542 to a Swiss Arms SG542. If you pick one up – you can tell the difference in quality – everything from the fit to finish.

So end at the end of the day, the CZ858 is a far better military grade rifle than the CSA variant. End of the day - I own at least one of both but my CSA is in 223.
 
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thealchemist said:
Do you want a true military classic? Or a commercial variant?

CSA rifles are commercially made ‘new rifles’. They are not military grade as far as quality (lots of people had problems with parts wearing out – I think this has been fixed with newer generations), nor are they in true military format (commercial plastic furniture versus lovely Beaver Barff), and some of their rifles come with plastic magazines.

The CZ858 is a true military rifle (hence why it was almost relegated to the prohibited category). Everything except for the ‘receiver’ is military issue. For example, all the parts, furniture, finish (grey enamel), metal magazines, pouches, etc. are as issued and original. Heck if you have a armour’s box all the parts in there will fit a CZ858 except for 1x part (full auto piece), whereas all these parts will not necessarily fit in a CSA variant.

Since the Czech’s made the VZ24 – they have been renowned for making very excellently built military grade rifles that can suffer abuse – hence why the CZ858 is the Cadillac of 58’s. They didn’t sacrifice quality for profits – especially during the Cold War – attention to detail and an excellent product was the result.

The CSA is still a nice rifle, but in my mind it would be like comparing a FAMAE SG542 to a Swiss Arms SG542. If you pick one up – you can tell the difference in quality – everything from the fit to finish.

So end at the end of the day, the CZ858 is a far better military grade rifle than the CSA variant. End of the day - I own at least one of both but my CSA is in 223.
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Actually every part of the cz 858 including the receiver was military issue. Thats why they became prohibited.
 
They became temp prohib because of the way our laws are written.
If the select fire receiver had never been made into a complete select fire rifle it can, according to our laws, be altered by welding to no longer accept the parts needed for automatic function.......it would be semi auto only and then built as a complete semi auto rifle and sold as non restricted with a barrel at or over 18.5 inches.

If the same select fire receiver was built up as a select fire rifle and stored for many years as surplus, then the manufacturer decided to dismantle the gun and use the parts to make the same gun as my first example, this gun would be considered prohibited even though for all intents and purposes they would be identical in form and structure as well as capability. Our laws say that once a gun is a complete select fire it can never be anything other then a converted auto which is prohib.
This was done back in the day when there were a lot of select fire guns coming into the surplus market and they were being re-worked to semi auto only and sold to civilians.

Makes no sense beyond the simple motive of removing certain scary guns from the hands of honest citizens, but there you go..... welcome to the wacky world of gun control.
 
As per barrels:
Non-Restricted = New Barrel
Restricted = Military Barrel

As per receivers:
There was a reason I placed "semi-quotation marks" around the word ‘receiver’ in my post.

The CZ858 receivers are all military grade - the fiasco came about because there was a big question as to whether the receivers were previously assembled into select fire firearms or whether the receivers were ‘newly’ made semi-auto variants produced from surplus unassembled receivers.

The RCMP initially approved these CZ rifles as ‘Restricted and Non-restricted’. This was because original imports had a ‘small milled window’ which demonstrated that the receivers were ‘newly’ assembled semi-auto receivers versus recycled, previously assembled and approved select fire receivers. This is something the RCMP did right – as per the letter of the law.

CZ messed things up with the 'large milled window' as this process effectively obliterated any arsenal approval stampings that would have been applied to formally approved select fire weapons. Upon approval a select fire weapon would have been marked with SHE = Factory Code and an arsenal approval stamp with the year of approval). The 'large milled window' made it impossible to determine if the receiver was a converted auto receiver versus a 'new' semi-automatic designed receiver.

The ‘large milled window’ made it impossible for the RCMP to determine if imported rifles were converted or not – hence why these ‘large milled window’ rifles were deemed ‘Prohibited’ for a period of time. People forget – not all CZ858’s had their classification changed – only ‘large milled window’ rifles. If in fact these were converted receivers and CZ clandestinely tried to hide their origin with the ‘large milled window’ the RCMP actually did their job properly – in regards to how the laws were written at the time.

Did CZ do this on purpose? Did they intentionally convert select fire rifles and try to hide their origin with the large window? Or was this an honest but fatal production mistake that brought their origin into question mistakenly?

To me, that answer doesn’t much matter – what matters more is the approval of the Common Sense Bill which addresses this and similar fiasco’s. All of the CZ858’s were purchased:

1. In good faith; and
2. Purchased as Restricted or Non-Restricted Firearms by Law Abiding Citizens

As a result it would be ‘unfair’ for a government to change their status or confiscate said firearms. Changing their status was ethically wrong but perhaps not technically/legally wrong. This new Bill seeks to eliminate the Red Tape which often overlooks right from wrong and most importantly overlooks common sense.

I just hope they grandfather this decision to the BD38 and that there might be a slim chance that mine has not seen the smelter yet.
 
thealchemist said:
As per barrels:
Non-Restricted = New Barrel
Restricted = Military Barrel

As per receivers:
There was a reason I placed "semi-quotation marks" around the word ‘receiver’ in my post.

The CZ858 receivers are all military grade - the fiasco came about because there was a big question as to whether the receivers were previously assembled into select fire firearms or whether the receivers were ‘newly’ made semi-auto variants produced from surplus unassembled receivers.

The RCMP initially approved these CZ rifles as ‘Restricted and Non-restricted’. This was because original imports had a ‘small milled window’ which demonstrated that the receivers were ‘newly’ assembled semi-auto receivers versus recycled, previously assembled and approved select fire receivers. This is something the RCMP did right – as per the letter of the law.

CZ messed things up with the 'large milled window' as this process effectively obliterated any arsenal approval stampings that would have been applied to formally approved select fire weapons. Upon approval a select fire weapon would have been marked with SHE = Factory Code and an arsenal approval stamp with the year of approval). The 'large milled window' made it impossible to determine if the receiver was a converted auto receiver versus a 'new' semi-automatic designed receiver.

The ‘large milled window’ made it impossible for the RCMP to determine if imported rifles were converted or not – hence why these ‘large milled window’ rifles were deemed ‘Prohibited’ for a period of time. People forget – not all CZ858’s had their classification changed – only ‘large milled window’ rifles. If in fact these were converted receivers and CZ clandestinely tried to hide their origin with the ‘large milled window’ the RCMP actually did their job properly – in regards to how the laws were written at the time.

Did CZ do this on purpose? Did they intentionally convert select fire rifles and try to hide their origin with the large window? Or was this an honest but fatal production mistake that brought their origin into question mistakenly?

To me, that answer doesn’t much matter – what matters more is the approval of the Common Sense Bill which addresses this and similar fiasco’s. All of the CZ858’s were purchased:

1. In good faith; and
2. Purchased as Restricted or Non-Restricted Firearms by Law Abiding Citizens

As a result it would be ‘unfair’ for a government to change their status or confiscate said firearms. Changing their status was ethically wrong but perhaps not technically/legally wrong. This new Bill seeks to eliminate the Red Tape which often overlooks right from wrong and most importantly overlooks common sense.

I just hope they grandfather this decision to the BD38 and that there might be a slim chance that mine has not seen the smelter yet.
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I believe they retrieved the SHE and other markings beneath the large window... the impact or pressure from the stamping or rolling of the numbers distorts the metal deep ..x ray, acid,magnaflux,,ect
 
All I gotta say is the prices are cracking me up. It was $700 when new and people want $1000+ for a used example?
 
Deuce-deuce said:
I have my doubts we'll be seeing any "new" ones... Truthfully that's a big part of my reasoning why I'm not selling.
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One can always hope. But this is pretty much my go to semi auto nr gun. Maybe market will slow down. Who knows. I expected them to be more but not double lol.
 
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