I never get tired of looking at these old guys.

D

drm3m

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I have sold some of my WWII pieces but none of the antiques ----so far.








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I too never get tired from looking at them......But I do get tired from not shooting them, so come and bring them over and we will go out and burn some powder.
 
Thanks for the comments.

Back in the early 1970s my late father and I shot the Remington and Starr revolvers shown below. Both guns have substantial original blue finish and very clear inspector’s acceptance grip cartouches. (IMHO) I think that reproduction revolvers are the way to go if you want to shoot percussion pistols from this period.

I would not shoot either of these original old guys again.




Same thing for the Colts with cylinder scenes that are often worn off original revolvers.




This Model 1842 .69 cal smooth bore musket manufactured by Harpers Ferry Armoury has a very early lock date of 1843.

This date places it within the Mexican War period as well as being a model that was used by both the North and South in the early years of the U.S. Civil War.

These muskets were known for firing a ‘buck and ball cartridge.’




The M1842 is on top.



This .69 cal. buck and ball paper cartridge does not belong to me.






Between 1843 and 1855 a total of 275,000 of this model were manufactured by Springfield and Harpers Ferry Armories, of which 172,000 were turned out at Springfield alone. The bayonet utilized for this model musket was the Model 1842 socket bayonet, which was 20-1/2 inches long, with a 2-7/8 inch socket and an 18-inch triangular blade. The U.S. Model 1842 Musket was the first arm to be produced at both the Harpers Ferry and Springfield Armories on a completely interchangeable basis, and aside even from this significant fact, holds a prominent position in the development of U.S. military shoulder arms. This was the first regulation percussion arm produced in the national armories, and at the same time, the last of the .69 caliber smoothbores.

.69 calibre round ball, or, “buck and ball” that was a .69 round ball with three rounds of buckshot.
 
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Each time we purchase a new collectible it comes with its own story.

I purchased this Pattern 1853 Enfield rifled musket in January 1994 and it was not until 2006 that I discovered some thought provoking stuff.

I had the opportunity of communicating with Joe Bilby an author of many Civil War era books---in discussing this P.53 Enfield he put me in contact with his friend Bill Adams a major sage on Confederate P.53s.

In a shortened story this is what I learned.

This is the P.53.



These were the issues that started the story.











The JS Anchor marking that was not clearly there on my gun.



These are part of the comments that came from this exercise with Bill Adams.

Number on top of brass butt plate tang 1121(large engraved numbers) (this is a Confederate“control number”)

.58 caliber as denoted by the 24 marking on the barrel.

(If the number was 25 it would be .577 cal)

Brit regulations specified that all arms were to have a number not to exceed four digits engraved "and in no instance stamped or punched" on the butt plate, the ramrod, the bayonet socket, the bayonet scabbard stud, and the waist belt. In short, each stand of arms had all of the components numbered together. The Confederates followed the same practice at first, but then realized that it was a waste of time.

The piece is not a Brit issue as it lacks the army proof house markings - even arms bought commercially for Brit service were normally reproofed at an army proof house.

The piece in the photo you sent is a Grade 2 handmade arm with filed flat-headed mount screws.

“On the bottom of the stock behind the trigger guard, there should be two commission broker's stamps and a JS anchor stamp. The stampings behind the trigger guards were often light. Lacking the anchor stamp, there should be either a G or an SC on the lock side of the butt stock for this particular number range.”

I think the early Confederate orders might have been 24 bore. My friend, who is an expert in these matters, says he is almost positive it is Confederate, with the number on the buttplate and the 24 bore marking.

More comments-

The sling is not correct to the piece. It is probably from a Lee Metford or even an SMLE. There should be either a date or a manufacturer's stamp across the sling in the space between the thong holes and the end of the tab. A BHG 21 stamp would indicate 1921 production. Sometimes the full date is there, such as 1917. Those slings remained in production as late as 1941. Many of the slings were stamped with bogus CW era contractor's names by the English firm CSS Alabama Ltd in 1969 and the ealry 1970's. A sutler used to bring in boxes of the slings from Canada.

While it's difficult to positively ID anything and to determine legitimacy from a photo, the piece seems to be a CS central government purchase. 1121 is the "control number." If the ramrod is original to the piece, it will also have 1121 engraved on it near the jag head. There should have been a large serif letter in front of the butt plate tang, but the stock seems to have been scraped. On the bottom of the stock behind the trigger guard, there should be two commission broker's stamps and a JS anchor stamp. The stampings behind the trigger guards were often light. Lacking the anchor stamp, there should be either a G or an SC on the lock side of the butt stock for this particular number range.

Some of the numbered arms can be traced to the vessel and the jobber, but - this is the big hole in the argument presented by the high-rolling dealers - there are only extant records for 2,000 arms that were brought into Savannah. Most CS dealers like to lead the buyer to believe that there are records for 30,000 numbered arms.
 
This P.53 Confederate history is very complicated stuff.

I was very lucky to connect with Bill Adams regarding the possible Confederate history of my P.53.
I had further conversations with Bill in January 2014.
Google him relating to Confederate P.53 Enfield’s and you will see what I mean about his connection to this subject.

Bill’s comment;
I found my listings of the crates that were missing from the London manifests. All of the crates are there except for #57, which seems very strange. #58 had P53's #1141-1160; #59 had 1161-1180, etc. Crates 1-7 and 58-62 came from arms merchant Wm. Grazebrook on May 1st 1861 and were marked with the G cypher. With crate #56 having been marked for Gov. Brown of Georgia and #58 having been marked G for Georgia, chances seem good that crate #57 that contained 1121 was also destined for Georgia.

The transaction is quite complicated, but there was an overlap of Georgia state funds and CS government funds in one of Maj. Anderson's large purchases. Anderson was the CS ordnance officer that was Caleb Huse's immediate supervisor, but he was also working for Gov. Brown of Georgia. Fortunately, Anderson kept a diary and he also recorded the first 2,000 of the Georgia purchases. Crate #57 having somehow been left off of the Georgia charts. Interestingly, there are two #58 crates, one listed as short rifles and the other listed as long Enfields, so there is a distinct possibility that the crate that should have been #57 was listed incorrectly. Crates #51-56 and #62-129 are on Anderson's main Georgia listing and crates 1-7 and 58-62 are on a supplemental list (these latter lists have not been published).

Crate #56 shipped aboard the Fingal contained P53's #1101 to 1120. There is then a gap to crate 62 which contained P53's 1221-1240. Those P53's were all supplied by C. W. James and originally had a letter J in front of the butt plate tang and had a letter G stamped on the lock side of the butt stock. 1121 would have been in crate #57 and if I have a listing for it, it is somewhere in the files, but was likely a James supplied piece. Interestingly, there was also a P56 rifle with control #1121 as the bayonet survived.



Examples of "G" for Georgia stock stamps.



The Fingal may have been the blockade runner that brought my P.53 #1121 to Savannagh in May 1861.

 
U.S. Model 1841 Rifle.
a.k.a. Mississippi rifle--- mfg’d by Whitney in 1848.





Originally .54 caliber, some rifles were later altered to .58 caliber. This rifle remains in .54 caliber.

Lock marked:
E WHITNEY (over US)
N. HAVEN (over) 1848

The barrels are lacquer browned.
The lock plate was case-hardened.
The black walnut stock was oil-finished.





All of the rifles that were altered for bayonets- the modification of the barrel was done at Harpers Ferry between 1855 and 1857.

The alterations involved the addition of the bayonet lug—shortening of the stock, and the use of a shorter upper barrel band.







The PB/P inspection stamp on the bayonet was for Phillip Burkhart the foreman of the barrel shop at Harpers Ferry.



A period photo.

 
I bought this Smith carbine in May 1993.

This carbine has the markings "C.H. Duba" , on three areas of the stock. Years ago, I engaged the research people at "The Horse Soldier" in Gettysburg to look into the question.
It is on record that Smith Carbines were issued to the 12th Illinois cavalry, and the results of the research shows a John Duba was mustered into "E" Co. Il. 12th Cavalry 1/24/1862,and mustered out on 12/31/1865.
Duba, is an unusual (Hungarian) name ,... but C.H Duba is not John Duba.



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Cartouche is perhaps J M .Maggs
John Maggs, active in 1862, during the American Civil War, accepted firearms and accessories on behalf of the Federal Army.







A .50 cal. rubber Smith carbine cartridge---not mine.



The Smith was the fourth most purchased carbine during the Civil War. It was only made during the Civil War from 1861 into 1865. Almost the entire production of 30,000+ was bought by the Federal Government.
The Smith carbine was fifty caliber. It opened by depressing the latch ahead of the trigger to release the barrel. The barrel pivots downward on the frame to a right angle and far beyond the opening angle of the typical break open shotgun.
The Smith carbine was purchased in quantity because it was available at the onset of the Civil War. 7,000 Smith carbines were delivered during the year 1862. It had been invented just before the creation of self-contained metallic ammunition by Smith & Wesson and Henry. Constrained by its ammunition, the Smith carbine was surpassed by other developments, principally the Sharps and the Spencer.
Special ammunition in an india rubber tube was issued for the Smith carbine. It could also be loaded with loose powder and bullet and was so used when captured by the Confederates. Loaded and fired without a seal the leakage is significant to the shooter's hand and arm and can be frightening to the face and eyes.
Alternate attempts to make ammunition were made with a rubber sealing ring, rolled paper, gutta percha, or rolled metal. Many different bullet weights and powder charges were used as arsenals and suppliers struggled with the task of making suitable ammunition. The bullet and powder weights and energies cited below are a composite to estimate typically issued ammunition.
The Smith Carbine was produced under three company names. All were made in the same general area in Massachusetts around Chicopee Falls and Springfield.
The original Smith Carbine was patented by Gilbert Smith of Buttermilk Falls, New York on June 23, 1857, and successfully completed the Military Trials of the late 1850's. Significant quantities were ordered by the Union military authorities, who after all had to supply both Armies for most of the Civil War. More than 30,000 were produced by the Massachusetts Arms Co. and American Machine Works of Chicopee Falls, Massachusetts. Military sales of the Smith were handled by Poultney and Trimble of Baltimore, and units known to have received the Smith were the 3rd W. Va. Cav., the 7th and 11th Ill. Cav., the 1st Conn. Cav, the 7th and 17th Penn. Cav., the 6th and 9th Ohio Cav., and the 1st Massachusetts Cav The action of the Smith Carbine breaks open in such a way that the chamber is broken between the front and rear of its dimensions. This was incorporated in the design of the weapon to facilitate quick removal of spent rounds.


As I had been communicating with Joe Bilby (The Author of many Civil War Gun books) on some other stuff I asked him if he had seen these types of markings on other guns of that period.

Joe's response;

As a matter of fact, yes - the Fenians had a tendency, if two of the conversion muskets are an indication, to mark guns like this. One that a friend of mine owns has "Sgt. Noonan" stamped into the wood.

The 1866 Fenians were armed with rifle muskets and Smith carbines -- some of the Canadians had Spencers, and the Canadian government bought more Spencers in the wake of the "invasion." Unless they were personal weapons, the Fenians never used Spencers. I mention this in passing in my new book on the Spencer and Henry. The Fenians of 1870 were armed with the Needham conversion of the Model 1863 rifle musket. The story is mentioned in Flayderman's "Guide" the guns were converted in Trenton by Trenton Arms Company, and a Fenian leader was a silent partner in the company.

Sometimes collecting these guns can lead you down a path that you were never expecting----the additional research was not a factor in your original purchase price.

At the end of what can be a substantial effort ----you may not be any further ahead.-----But it can be an interesting adventure!

In the case of this Smith carbine ------was John Duba the Civil War U.S. vet-----and C.H. Duba a relative that came to fight in Canada in 1866 with the Fenians with this Smith carbine?
I have no idea!
 
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Two very different old rifles.

The last of the Springfield Trapdoor rifles with an 1893 SWP Inspector’s cartouche and a serial number of 561529.

Mod.1884 (this particular model of 1884 was also known as “Model 1888 US Trapdoor Rifle” or “Ramrod Bayonet Model” or Model 1889.













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I inherited this ‘buggy rifle’ that had supposedly belonged to mother’s grandfather.

For years the family thought that this was the rifle that was used by James G. Pell against the Fenians at the Battle of Eccles Hill in the Eastern Townships on May 25 1870.



Someone had scratched his name on the stock with the May 25 1870 date and Eccles Hill.



There was an article that I found “The Ballard Of The Red Sashes” that was written by Charles J. Purdon in 1993, which appeared in the Lower Canada Arms Collectors Association journal.



This article talks more about the Ballard rifles that Asa Westover and my great great grandfather James G. Pell purchased for the Red Sashes.

The ‘underhammer buggy rifle ‘shown above is certainly not the Ballard rifle that Pell used at the Battle of Eccles Hill.

Stories that get passed down over the generations about ‘Grandpa’s old gun ' can get distorted along the way.
He died on March 20 1913. No one knows what happened to his Ballard rifle.





James Pell---dressed in white.



The Home Guard after the Battle of Eccles Hill with their Ballard rifles.

 
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Two Colt Model 1849 Pocket Revolvers----one with a London barrel address the other with a New York City barrel address.
The cased London Colt came with all of the accessories shown below.
Serial number 3222 manufactured in 1853 in London.
All of the serial numbers are matching on the various components---no original finish left on this Colt.




The London Colt .






London Proofs;



The case.





The accessories;









The New York City barrel address '49 Colt-- serial number 101792--manufactured in 1855.









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The Colt Model 1849 "Pocket Revolver" was Colt's answer when replacing their "Baby Dragoon" series of guns. Unbeknownst to Colt at the time of the Model 1849's inception was the success that lay in their new product. Of course, sales of this new firearm were also bolstered by the fact that America was at war and soldiers were always on the lookout for secondary weapons of most any kind - in particular, a trusty, sturdy sidearm that the Model 1849 represented. In fact, both sides - the northern Union and southern Confederacy - would go on to utilize the Model 1849 in their inventories though they were not standard issue guns - soldiers acquired these through private ownership through sale or as gifts from friends and loved ones. As such, sales exceeded 336,000 examples with production spanning 1850 to 1873 (the American Civil War would last from 1861 to 1865). Despite the end of the American conflict, production continued in the post-war years and at least 11,000 were even manufactured overseas in London - making it the widest-reaching Colt product up to that time and a true commercial success for the gunmaker. Production was handled out of the Colt Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company of Hartford, Connecticut as well as a facility based out of New York.

The Model 1949 was categorized as a single-action "percussion" revolver utilizing "cap and ball" ammunition and her design was conventional by 1800s revolver standards. The barrel was octagonal with a forward front open post sight used for aiming. The underside of the gun body angled downwards towards the trigger unit containing a thin curved trigger system within an oblong trigger ring. The grip was constructed of wood (the only wood furniture found on the gun) and ergonomically curved to comfortably fit the hand of the user. The pistol grip connected at the rear of the receiver with the identifiable hammer exposed at the rear top of the gun - the hammer featuring the requisite spur for easy access and operation. The cylinder (completed in either five- or six-shot forms) was generally smooth sided though some were produced with elaborate engravings. It is of note that the frame surrounding the ammunition cylinder was completed without a connecting "bridge" framework overhead. The Model 1849 was chambered to fire the .31 caliber cartridge from the rotating cylinder and barrel lengths were variable, coming in either three-, four-, five- or six-inch lengths as needed. Ammunition was loaded from the front of the rotating cylinder, one cartridge at a time. Later revolvers eased this process by having the gun hinge forward as two separate pieces joined along a pivot or by having the cylinder "flip-out" to the side for unfettered access. As a "single-action" revolver, the gun required the user to "####" the weapon each time he fired, that is, bring the hammer back manually, usually with the dominant thumb, to ready the gun. The pull of the trigger merely released the hammer against the cartridge - a "single" action, this as opposed to a "double-action" pistol that accomplished both the cocking and firing action with a single pull of the trigger - hence the use of the word "double".

Although of generally sound design, the Model 1849 was not highly regarded for the military man during the American Civil War. It was a heavy hand gun to tote around on those seemingly endless marching forays required by war of this time. Bring this weapon along was also in addition to the standard backpack gear and long rifle as well as the ammunition supplies needed for the weapons. The .31 caliber cartridge was a man-stopper to be sure but the firepower inherent in the Model 1849 was oft-regarded as less-than-acceptable for military-minded engagements which usually began at distance. She could prove a most accurate pistol, however, particularly in close-quarters battles where a long gun with bayonet attached became all too unwieldy to use. The repeating nature of the five- or six-shot cylinder also meant that the Model 1849 operator could loose multiple rounds at a target before having to reload. Revolvers were also a common sidearm for cavalrymen where, from their mounted positions high atop a horse, they could engage masses of soldiers from afar and then swoop in with their sabres to cut down awaiting infantry. Additionally, he could retreat to reload his firearm and prepare to fire another salvo.

Despite the given name of "Pocket Revolver", the Model 1849 was anything but a pocket pistol, never to be confused with a compact weapon to fit into any man's regular-sized pocket. In fact, a far cry from the compact pistols of today.
 
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I inherited this S&W Model No.2 Old Model revolver (a.k.a. Model No.2 Army).32 caliber Long Rim Fire, from my father in-law in 1991. (A Christmas gift.)





These guns were manufactured between 1861 & 1872. (Many were private purchases during the U.S. Civil War.)
The serial number on this gun is 42584 and was probably manufactured around 1868.



On April 17th 1960 a man showed up at my future father-in law's front door to rob him using this Smith & Wesson revolver -- the gun was wrestled away from the intruder who then fled and was captured by the police a few blocks away.

My future wife was about ten years old at that time and she chased the bad guy down the street. (So she says???)

Sometime after the court case the police gave the revolver back to my father in-law as a souvenir after filing down the hammer to prevent firing.



The police decided to commemorate the event by scratching the date on the gun...otherwise it is in pretty decent condition.

According to reports from the family ….the gun was loaded when it was picked up.

My father in-law was the wrong guy to try and steal from….he went on to become the Mayor of
the Eastern Ontario town where they lived for thirteen years.

I have been looking for an ejection lug which is missing….I doubt I will ever find an original replacement part.

The missing ejection lug.



This story comes from various family sources.....this bandito must have had a weakness for black powder vintage firearms????

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