How do I Anneal?

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Tonybuell

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Hello Gents!
Wanting to get some extra life out of my 338 Lapua brass.
I'm watched some Utube videos and they all
Seem pretty different.

The equipment I have is.... Torch... Drill... 338 brass lol

Do you dip in water after?
How do you gage when its properly annealed?

Thanks for the advice guys.
Cheers!
Tony
 
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Get temperature indicating lacquer. Tempilaq or Omegalaq. You need the 750 deg stuff. Try welding, machine ore auto parts stores.
 
I spin them in a drill using a Lee case holder meant for their case length trimmer. Hold it in the flame until the brass at the site of the flame turns blue. I don't use any water after; just let them air cool. Brass doesn't react to quenching like steels do. In fact brass is pretty much totally unaffected by quenching. If there is enough heat to soften the case heads, the blue colour will go down the case wall so you'll know (that's bad). You want the blue colour just below the bottom of the shoulder; maybe 1/2" past it. If the cases glow bright red, it's too hot. The brass will be too soft and may crush when seating a bullet or stretch way more than normal when fired.

I find if I anneal in dim lighting, when the brass turns just a touch of very dull read (not bright red), it's about right.

I've annealed many cases this way and haven't had an issue. Prevents neck and shoulder splits but doesn't seem to cause any problems.

The chemistry of annealing is quite interesting. If you heat to below the annealing temperature (recrystallization temperature; about half the melting point), nothing happens. There is a minimum thermal threshold before the grains/crystals of metal start to reform. Even a little below the required temp and you're just accelerating oxidization. Recrystallization does speed up as you get hotter and you don't want to fully anneal brass cases; that will make them too soft. The fact that brass turns blue at about the right temperature for our purposes is just a very convenient coincidence (or divine creation; that's for you to decide for yourself ;) ).
 
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A gunsmith once told me to just do them by hand over a bucket of water. Hold the case by the head, rotate it in the torch flame until you drop it when it gets too hot lol
 
For my 25/06 cases 8-9 seconds is about right to just start to get the dull red colour on the neck. I use a cordless screwdriver with a home made aluminum shell holder that also acts as a heat sink to keep heat away from the base of the cartridge. I watch the timer on my phone to stay consistent. No need to quench.

Here is a very good article.

http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html
 
A dull red is going to be too soft. The brass anneals to a range of levels before it reaches a dull red. I've done a few cases to try where I heat the necks until they turned a fairly dense blue'ish colour then dumped them into the water to stop any further degree of annealing. The necks of the range pickup brass I tried this on were noticeably easier to bend with needle nose pliers than the cases I didn't anneal. The one I did to a noticeable dull red was far softer. So soft in fact that it would not really be expected to hold a reasonable amount of neck tension. ALL the spring in the brass was gone on that one.

Grab a few range pickup cases in a caliber you don't reload and try it for yourself. Nothing like the personal touch.

The hand drill with the deep socket to guard the lower portion seemed like a grand method.
 
I hold the brass in my fingers rolling it back and forth over a flame from a propane torch.
As soon as the flame starts to change color I drop them.
I usually scrap my .223 brass after 20 uses.

Terry
 
BCRider said:
A dull red is going to be too soft. The brass anneals to a range of levels before it reaches a dull red. I've done a few cases to try where I heat the necks until they turned a fairly dense blue'ish colour then dumped them into the water to stop any further degree of annealing. The necks of the range pickup brass I tried this on were noticeably easier to bend with needle nose pliers than the cases I didn't anneal. The one I did to a noticeable dull red was far softer. So soft in fact that it would not really be expected to hold a reasonable amount of neck tension. ALL the spring in the brass was gone on that one.

Grab a few range pickup cases in a caliber you don't reload and try it for yourself. Nothing like the personal touch.

The hand drill with the deep socket to guard the lower portion seemed like a grand method.
Click to expand...


Read the article in the post above and the method used by former 1,000 yd world record holder Rich DeSimone that is below the article.

I got started annealing after I picked up some (well) used brass on EE and every 3rd case was cracking. After reading the article (a few times), annealing using Rich's method completely solved that issue and gave a slight increase in accuracy. I'm on my 7th reload and 2nd annealing of those remaining cases now and very rarely get a crack. After learning to "Watch for the neck to jussst start to turn maroon in shade. In other words, watch for the very onset of the neck changing to red." (Quote from Rich), I established the time that works for me and use a timer. I let my cases air cool, takes 3-4 seconds and you can handle them. It is well known that quenching adds nothing to the process.
 
mark222 said:
For my 25/06 cases 8-9 seconds is about right to just start to get the dull red colour on the neck. I use a cordless screwdriver with a home made aluminum shell holder that also acts as a heat sink to keep heat away from the base of the cartridge. I watch the timer on my phone to stay consistent. No need to quench.

Here is a very good article.

http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html
Click to expand...

Whew that's a really comprehensive discussion on annealing.. thanks
 
Mark, you're right that quenching adds nothing. But it does stop any hot spots from the heating conducting into more of the surrounding brass within the first few seconds after removing it from the flame. And with any hand held process guided by a human such things can and will happen.

I had not seen that particular article but the heating to where we can see the colour change towards a blue colour is a common point in the articles I did read and the basis for my personal test with the range pickup brass to test this for myself.

I'll suggest one change from that article though. If looking for a red heat just starting it's best to work in dim lighting. If looking for the oxidation colour change through to some shade of the "rainbow" of colours that heated metal passes through it's best to have LOTS of good bright light. It's the same when heating steel to temper a hardened tool of some sort. You want to polish up the metal so it's nice and clean and then carefully heat it in good lighting to see it turn first to a light gold then through straw and on to the darker bronze and blue colours. One dim light over to one side won't give you that. Lots of light is the way to go as long as it's not in your eyes.

The only downside is waiting for the insides to dry. But I clean my rifle brass with an ultrasonic cleaner anyway so I can combine these wet processes and use one drying cycle.

In any event the maroon colour mentioned by DeSimone is the key. I think I hit that since I don't recall letting it pass through the deep blue/bronze colour. If we let it get towards blue/violet in the oxidation colour scale then dull red and being too soft is only a whiff away. So a dark reddish bronze sounds like the target colour.

At any rate I still strongly suggest trying and learning with the unwanted, by us at least, range pickup brass for getting past the learning curve. When heated with a propane torch things happen FAST and the difference between not enough, just right, and too much is about one second worth of heating. And the heating colours continue to darken and even out for the fist half second or so after the heat is taken away. So some practice at this is certainly time well spent.
 
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Blue is too hot. Red hot is worse. Heat until the brass changes colour only.
Really best to sit the cases in a pan of water up to the shoulder, heat 'em and tip 'em over.
 
BCRider said:
At any rate I still strongly suggest trying and learning with the unwanted, by us at least, range pickup brass for getting past the learning curve. When heated with a propane torch things happen FAST and the difference between not enough, just right, and too much is about one second worth of heating. And the heating colours continue to darken and even out for the fist half second or so after the heat is taken away. So some practice at this is certainly time well spent.
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I agree, I practiced to get the hang of it and to find what worked best for me. It is a very fine line between wasting your time by under heating, and ruining your cases by overheating. Using a timer has probably been the best change I made vs. the methods in the article. As with most things in this hobby consistency is key.
 
Some good info.

I got some lake city brass going on its 4th round that Im gonna have to try out here soon to see if I can extend its life some.
 
One thing not mentioned yet, is when going by color change, new brass changes color differently than brass annealed a few times. Not the most precise way to gauge temperature.
 
sunray said:
Blue is too hot. Red hot is worse. Heat until the brass changes colour only.
Really best to sit the cases in a pan of water up to the shoulder, heat 'em and tip 'em over.
Click to expand...

Color change is too hot.

Just leave them outside on a sunny day but make sure to put on sunscreen from the shoulder down or you could anneal the base...REALLY BAD
 
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