Howa from Weatherby or Howa from Howa?

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F-Tang

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So I know that the Weatherby Vanguard is basically a Howa 1500 under a different name, but does it warrant a $150 price increase over a Howa-branded Howa 1500? Is there that much that Weatherby does to it that it would be more worth it to pay $650 for it instead of $500 for a Howa Hogue Lightning?

As for calibre and usage, I'm looking for a .223 for both the range and for coyote in S. Ont. I figure since I can't use my AR I should get something in the same calibre to keep ammo costs low for the range.

Would it be better to look for a heavy barrel if I want to do range shooting too? I know that's gonna cost a bit more, but how much of a difference is it going to make? How many shots will I be able to take at the range before heat really starts affecting my accuracy? And how hard/expensive is it to have a smith replace the barrel with a heavy one in the future if I choose I want one?

Also, one last thing, I know people compare Howa and Remington and Ruger, but what about Savage? I it worth the price increase for Howa versus an Axis?
 
I would not pay $650 for a Vanguard, while WSS has them on for $525.It's cheaper to buy another rifle at those prices, than it is to rebarrel one.
 
The vanguard 2 (I believe) has their .223 barrels with a 1:9" twist versus the older 1:12" twist of the Vanguard 1 and (Still) Howa 1500. I just think you should be aware in case you planned on shooting bullets heavier than 69 grains or so. If not, it's not much difference, certainly not worth $150
It's not like Howa is going to make an inferior rifle and put their name on it, then make a better one and put someone else's name on it. I have a weatherby vanguard 1 and a Howa 1500. Both smooth as butter, perfect weights for a hunting rifle, sturdy as all get out, and THE BEST VALUE OUT THERE (IMHO) in terms of bang for the buck. I keep buying and selling rifles, but the weatherby and howa NEVER seem to move out of my lockers (except to hunt and range shoot)
 
Regardless of make your choice of 223 will work better for you with the tighter twist.
I nearly bought an S2 with the 9" twist but instead went with a T3 Tikka because it has an 8" twist same as my F-Class 40X.
As for the Vanguard and Howa both are excellent, I have both in different chamberings..
 
I personally prefer the stock and the trigger on the VGII over the Howa.

Because of that, for me it is cheaper to buy the Wby and NOT swap the stock and trigger then go with the Howa and add a couple hundred bucks or more to get it the way I want.

And as noted, the Wby has a little more name recognition in the wider "gun audience" - most guys/gals have at least heard of Weatherby - I sell guns and not one in ten that comes in has heard of Howa and are reluctant to part with their bucks on a name they don't recognize. That may or may not be a factor..
 
So I went down to Flaherty's and checked out their Howa and Weatherby, and I much prefer the Hogue stock on the Howa over the Monte Carlo stock on the Weatherby. Though I left with another issue, they showed me a Savage M25, which was a pretty interesting gun too, the only downside to it being the stock isn't bedded. Anyone got any opinions on the Savage M25?

Also, is this a decent combo? http://store.prophetriver.com/howa-...ue-bl-20-nikko-stirling-gameking-4-16x44-lrx/ How's the Nikko Stirling scope? Is anyone selling the HBAR without a scope? I know North Pro has the 22" standard one for $500, but has anyone got the HBAR without a scope right now?
 
I would stay far away from the savage model 25, in any cal or configuration, lots of disappointed owners. Plenty of better choices.
And yes I speak from experience, .17 hornet walking varmint. Poor feeding, jamming, stif to eject if it ejected, failed to eject brass, oversize chamber, brass splits, and the final f--Kup the mounting holes for the bases were so far off Center I had to buy windage adjustable mounts to get a vx3 3-14x52 on to paper.
I am not the only one with a savage model 25, that's fit only for a chop saw and burn barrell.
 
Another question I thought of, part of a seemingly endless debate, I bought a crate of Chinese 5.56 with my AR, is it safe to fire in this? I mean, what are the real risks of 5.56 in a .223 chamber, especially on a heavy barrel?
 
my dad picked up a Vanguard 223 and i picked up a Ruger Predator in 223.
the Vanguard is twice the gun for fit and finish that the Ruger is.

if your looking for a 5.56 gold gun maybe look at the Ruger Ranch in 223, its a 5.56 and run's between 400-500 smackeroos.

here is the journey we took with our 223's this spring.

The 223 challenge!
 
F-Tang said:
So I went down to Flaherty's and checked out their Howa and Weatherby, and I much prefer the Hogue stock on the Howa over the Monte Carlo stock on the Weatherby. Though I left with another issue, they showed me a Savage M25, which was a pretty interesting gun too, the only downside to it being the stock isn't bedded. Anyone got any opinions on the Savage M25?

Also, is this a decent combo? http://store.prophetriver.com/howa-...ue-bl-20-nikko-stirling-gameking-4-16x44-lrx/ How's the Nikko Stirling scope? Is anyone selling the HBAR without a scope? I know North Pro has the 22" standard one for $500, but has anyone got the HBAR without a scope right now?
Click to expand...

thats actually a pretty nice looking rifle.
 
F-Tang said:
So I went down to Flaherty's and checked out their Howa and Weatherby, and I much prefer the Hogue stock on the Howa over the Monte Carlo stock on the Weatherby. Though I left with another issue, they showed me a Savage M25, which was a pretty interesting gun too, the only downside to it being the stock isn't bedded. Anyone got any opinions on the Savage M25?

Also, is this a decent combo? http://store.prophetriver.com/howa-...ue-bl-20-nikko-stirling-gameking-4-16x44-lrx/ How's the Nikko Stirling scope? Is anyone selling the HBAR without a scope? I know North Pro has the 22" standard one for $500, but has anyone got the HBAR without a scope right now?
Click to expand...

Nikko Sterling is cheap crap.
 
So I just found the gun by itself at International Shooting Supplies http://internationalshootingsupplies.com/product/howa-1500-hogue-varmint-223-remington-20/

They want the same as Prophet River wants for the combo, but they advertise it as being a 1-9" twist. PRF doesn't list a twist rate. The thing is, Howa only lists 1-12" in their catalogue, so I don't know if that's even right. If it is, though, I'll have to ask PRF what the twist is on theirs. Is it worth the extra cash for a 1-9" twist if PRF's is only 1-12"?
 
So PRF's is only 1-12" twist, but I was reading that for lighter bullets too high of a twist can be detrimental. If I was planning to shoot mostly 40-55gr bullets, would I even need a 1-9" twist? Could it actually be detrimental to me for the lighter bullets?
 
F-Tang said:
So PRF's is only 1-12" twist, but I was reading that for lighter bullets too high of a twist can be detrimental. If I was planning to shoot mostly 40-55gr bullets, would I even need a 1-9" twist? Could it actually be detrimental to me for the lighter bullets?
Click to expand...

My 1 in 8" twist Sako Varmint shoots the 50gr V-max sub 1/2moa.
 
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