New Elk Hunter: Flatter Trajectory: Does it matter & What Caliber?

Great advice! My brother was helping me research things and he too liked the .338 as it seems the venerable Jack O'Connor was a big fan of this for elk hunting as well. Looking to see obstructions, etc in the bulet's flight path is good common sense and as such can never be repeated too often, so thanks!

It seems that I've got to get my hands on a .300+ caliber gun for hands on experience. I'm sure the recoil is manageable enough and if a long range shot would be needed, I feel that I could only take it if I could go prone.

Cheers!

t-star said:
500 is "optimistic" for any standard rifle cartridge, including the 338 winmag- both elmer keith's and val giest's recommendations are on line- one simply has to google "elk hunting" -and you misread my comment- elk very rarely" present" broadside shots PERIOD, and ranges are at about 250 and up- right about 325- 350 is the majority- take a look at your ballistic tables to see how much a bullet drops off between 300-400 yards with a 200-250 zero= it's a good yard or more in elevation- the longer you go , the more drop ( duh) and look to see WHAT'S in between you and the target- trees make a HUGE difference and a meadow is almost no problem at all-as far as recoil a 338 will DOUBLE your 06 in ft pounds but you're also throwing a heavier slug by70 grains or so at the same velocity ie 17 ft pounds/180 ( semi gentle nudge vs a REAL GOOD PUSH) 34 /250 BOTH AT 2600 FPS but a little PRACTICE takes care of that- I use a browning bar in 338 - with a kdf muzzelbrake- if you must take a shot at those ranges, use your pack as a rest and get real good and hunkered down before you take the shot- and watch the animal when he's down to see the eyes glaze over- ie watch the shot and have your observer do the same
c
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if you go the 338, the 250 is pretty hard to beat- anything else is making the gun underperform- they don't make the 275 anymore, ( my brown bear load) and try to get a 1/10 twist- I have a 1/12 in the bar and I can't use the 300 grainers now out- bolt action goes without saying, unless you're left handed, ( when I got mine, there were no left handed 338s, now there are- ) fiberglas stock for the weather, and try a harris bipod to see if you like it- all of my guns except for the levers wear harris 'pods- - nice little accessory to have- and it never hurts to have a back- up- that means 2- one you keep in camp as back-up- to tell the truth , I got the bar for that once in a lifetime hunt for brownies up in ak, another dream gone bust- automatic for that fast 2nd shot if needed-and a GOOD scope- 3x9 will get the job done , but I prefer the 4x12- but i'm old- frankly, you should have been hiking about april in canmore to get used to the altitude- it's a little late for that now , but you'll learn- either that or i'm fos -but i'm coming up on 50 years of shooting= does that SOUND like i'm fos?
 
I have to take exception with the advice of the 338 beyond 250-300 mtrs. Take a look at remaining velocity, trajectory and energy charts comparing the 338 with a 250 to a 300 Win or Wby using a 180-200 gn bullet. You will find that the 300 arrives at 400 mtrs with a significantly flatter trajectory and greater energy on target than the 338. The 300 will penetrate every bit as good with good bullets and it will open up better and impart more energy on the target. Now the 340 is a whole different ballgame, however it is not an easy rifle to get comfortable with.
 
c-fbmi said:
I have to take exception with the advice of the 338 beyond 250-300 mtrs. Take a look at remaining velocity, trajectory and energy charts comparing the 338 with a 250 to a 300 Win or Wby using a 180-200 gn bullet. You will find that the 300 arrives at 400 mtrs with a significantly flatter trajectory and greater energy on target than the 338. The 300 will penetrate every bit as good with good bullets and it will open up better and impart more energy on the target. Now the 340 is a whole different ballgame, however it is not an easy rifle to get comfortable with.
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and yet my reloading manuals show the 340 with the same bullets is only 100-200 fps faster, given a half inch longer case and 10 grains more powder-0
if you want to get into speed, the 338 lap mag is the way to go
 
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one other point- calls, antlers, waving your arms up and down , pawing the ground and going whee- younk , whistles all work during the rut- case in point- I was going to bc in early October, and I spotted 2 bull elk up on a ridge- no gun, but I thought i'd get some nice pictures- so I stopped the car , and one of them pawed the ground and bugled - so I did likewise- well, they come down that ridge hell bent for leather- I got back in the car as fast as I could and got the hell out of there- they stopped when they hit pavement
 
A 338 WM is never a good choice for a new hunter. Use your 270 and poke one through the lungs, it works. I've hunted and killed elk in a handful of zones in the Peace/Smoky Region. Pretty easy to get them under 400 yards. Unless you're doing a high speed roll out of the truck and shoot 'em off bales as they scatter...
 
Give a 300 win mag a try. Start with 150 or 165 gr loads. If those aren't bad for you try a 180 gr load. Recoil tolerance has nothing to do with physical size. I'm 5'9" 150 lbs and can take heavy recoil. Yet my buddy who is ripped 230 lb guy finds any recoil hurts him.
If shooting long range the extra weight gives the bullet momentum to plow thru bone and keep going. This is where a 300 mag wins over a 270. A good recoil pad and a stock design that fits you (you fit the average build so it should be easy) will help tame a magnum.

Nosler partition
Nosler accubond
Federal trophy bonded
Hornady inter bond
Hornady sst are all bullets that will expand at range yet work a lot closer if that close shot presents its self
 
Great stuff and appreciate the ammo picks! Also, I certainly hope and think we will probably be under 400 yards, but I also want to be prepared just in case.

Per your advice, I'm thinking very hard and and leaning towards trying a .300 WM. Did some searching based on t-star who said he uses a BAR and was thinking that a semi might help cut the recoil (like my SBE II and Xtrema2 do). Seems that's the case and to be honest, the Safari is actually a nice looking rifle while not being too expensive. I'm just curious how accurate it is out at the 400+ range?

Is there a particular rifle you would take in that caliber?

brybenn said:
Give a 300 win mag a try. Start with 150 or 165 gr loads. If those aren't bad for you try a 180 gr load. Recoil tolerance has nothing to do with physical size. I'm 5'9" 150 lbs and can take heavy recoil. Yet my buddy who is ripped 230 lb guy finds any recoil hurts him.
If shooting long range the extra weight gives the bullet momentum to plow thru bone and keep going. This is where a 300 mag wins over a 270. A good recoil pad and a stock design that fits you (you fit the average build so it should be easy) will help tame a magnum.

Nosler partition
Nosler accubond
Federal trophy bonded
Hornady inter bond
Hornady sst are all bullets that will expand at range yet work a lot closer if that close shot presents its self
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Another good option is to Get used T/C pro Hunter in 300 wm and a spare barrel in 306 then no mater what happens your covered
The pro Hunter is light handy rifle and Plenty accurate best of all is it is flexible
a YouTube review I found I think you will be interested in
I have a Prohunter in 223 SS with a 14" barrel and I think I mite be getting a used 308 it's a really nice Rifle for the bush or the farm
http://youtu.be/7Zwms6keFnA
 
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Great minds think alike carverk! I looked into the R1 vs BAR earlier and seems that theR1 might be better on recoil and better balanced as well as having a removable clip but less accurate than the BAR. Anyone use both that could comment on their experience?

Actually, anyone have any thoughts on the .280 or .284 as an elk rifle?

carverk said:
I would think a Benelli with the Comfor Teck stock would be a nother option for heavy recoil caliber
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Vengeance78 said:
Great minds think alike carverk! I looked into the R1 vs BAR earlier and seems that theR1 might be better on recoil and better balanced as well as having a removable clip but less accurate than the BAR. Anyone use both that could comment on their experience?

Actually, anyone have any thoughts on the .280 or .284 as an elk rifle?
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The R1 looks funny to me but it is sweet to Handel
I have bin moving more Towards T/C pro hunter it's suits my style of hunting better
With the Prohunter it so short and the Action is boom proof
For you I would think a inexpensive boult action 308 sumthing like ruger American and 3x9 Leopold variable scope would be idea In the unlikely situation it will still be effective Out to 400 yards
And It's not to long or heavy for spot and stock and over all a lot more practical as a hunting rifle

It's funny to Watch a guy trying to get out of a truck with a long scoped rifle then wen he finally gets out he still needs to load it
no wonder thay need a high powers magnum rifles and high magnification
By the time ther ready to shoot The animals a half mile away or better
I will stick to my mid Range rifles and the shorter and Lighter the better
 
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I'd specifically look at a 7mm in particular the 7RM. The 270 has filled the role that you are looking at for years but could be considered by some as lacking particularly on a a quartering shot. I have used the 270 with gray success but there is no doubt that the 300 mag will improve you performance. After guiding in excess of 20 years I have come to the conclusion that 60% of the shooters using the 300WM cannot shoot them well. Most have a terrible flinch. I guess that would be all 300 shooters except members of CGN because none of them flinch.
The 7RM delivers close the the same down range energy without abusing the shooter as much.and to me has been a more successful killer of elk than it's bigger brother.

Something I think is definitely worth looking at. It certainly outperforms the 270WSM.
Use 160 gr petitions or accubonds at 3000 to 3100fps

Neil
 
My elk/moose rifle is a .300 WM with 200 grain Nosler Partitions. It's the "smallest" cartridge/bullet combination that, when you get into those arguments about what is adequate for "whatever", get people to quit arguing and simply admit that, "Yeah, that'll work." No trajectory issues; no more "Well that will work as long as ...... " It is just enough gun for anything in North America, and in an accurate gun, is also really good for very long range work.

It is not "fun" to shoot off the bench for testing and sighting, but it can certainly be handled by anyone with good technique. There are others that are even "more so", but many years ago I tried it out as my really bigger game rifle, and have found no reason to get anything that burns more powder. It appears (and I am almost reluctant to say so) that the .300 WSM is capable of ballistics that are so close there is really no justification for one over the other, but I have had a long affair with the .300 WM, and there is certainly no reason to change. If I was looking for what the OP wants, I would start with either of those rounds in a rifle I liked.
 
Vengeance78 said:
Great minds think alike carverk! I looked into the R1 vs BAR earlier and seems that theR1 might be better on recoil and better balanced as well as having a removable clip but less accurate than the BAR. Anyone use both that could comment on their experience?

Actually, anyone have any thoughts on the .280 or .284 as an elk rifle?
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The Benelli R1 is a very nice rifle and handles very well, I actually got to put a few rounds through a wood stocked one at the range a few weeks ago. It was a .30-06 and was sporting a red dot sight of a manufacture I can't remember. Accuracy seemed good but a 3moa red dot was probably not the best test of accuracy, but it was very fast. Recoil seemed pleasantly reduced as well.
The .280 and .284 in my opinion fall exactly between the .270 and .30-06 which is to say very useful and effective. The downside is they really benefit from handloads, and are expensive to shoot factory ammo in.
I know you're new to the sport, not only of elk hunting but hunting and shooting as well, and your earlier posts seemed to reflect a desire to shoot factory loaded ammo, so I'm going to recommend you ignore the chatter about .338's and more exotic magnums because they take a considerable amount of trigger time to master and you may not have time to do it before this season. You haven't hunted or shot much I would once again say the .30-06 is almost never a bad choice. The load that shoots 180 grain Nosler partitions, accubonds, Hornaday interlock or interbond, Swift A-frame or Sierra game king most accurately would be my preferred choice, 165 grain bullets of the same varieties would be 2nd. CFBMI is not wrong when he says the .300 magnums aren't that much harder to master, if you can invest the time and ammunition cost to do so. I personally find the 7mm Remington Magnum to be easily mastered as well and like it just a little more than the .300's. All the bullets I mentioned before but in 150-175 grain weights for the 7mm and 165-200 in the .300's will topple anything in NA if you put the bullet where it needs to go.
 
Q#1 - Nosler calculator on App Store is free and seems decent for running some numbers.

Q#2A - out of those I'd use 270wsm with 140 accubonds just because you forgot the 6.5 and 7mm calibers, 2 of the best for sleek bullets to get out there.
Q#2B - 5 cow elk taken from a bit south of where you'll be with 7mm RM and 160 accubonds/a-frame/partition and 2 with 260 rem with 120tsx ranges from 100ish to 350 yards.

Q#3 - flatter trajectory equals less room for human error, that's about it. With more speed and a good bullet means more energy to the target at a given range, less fight time and drift too.

I have my cow draw this year and hoping to use a 130 swift S2 6.5cal at around 3200fps and preparing to go to 500yds if need be. These cows aren't as big as ya might think and run about 50 yards till they run out of air.
If ya need a new cow elk rifle and shooting factory ammo maybe a Sako a7, T3 ss hunter or a 700 xcr2 in 270wsm or 7mm rem mag. If reloading 257wby and 100ttsx or 110ab, 6.5x55 and 130ab or 127lrx, 280rem and 140ttsx,140ab, 150ab long range.

Have fun!
 
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Something I think is definitely worth looking at. It certainly outperforms the 270WSM.
Use 160 gr petitions or accubonds at 3000 to 3100fps
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My .270 WSM is doing 3000 fps with 160 Partitions. My 7mm Rem does almost 3000 with 160 Accubonds. Do you really think there is going to be a difference?
 
wind drift is going to be your problem not how flat shorting your rifle is after 200 yards
Do you know how to dope the wind for shots pass 200 yards remember we're talking hunting so you may only get one shot
Nothing wrong passing That 400 yard shot you will be More successful In the long run and you not be leaving wounded elk for the ravens and the coyotes

Get the rifle and caliber you like but be realistic about your capabilities !

I fond this article on wind drift

http://www.backcountrychronicles.com/wind-drift-missed-shot/
 
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