Which AR-15's are the most reliable weapon systems? (excluding COLT)

Stray03 said:
Call em whatever makes you feel better but I refuse to call them by some politically correct term just to satisfy some nancy. I own a norinco and for my super awesome back flip 360 shooting it has never let me down. I live in canada not syria so I dont need to bet my life on any of my guns and neither do 99% of you. the rest are issued government property. Stop pretending you are rambo or ready for ze germans or surviving the zombies. Guns are toys or hunting tools. Stop with the childish fantasies.
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i expect my firearms to be of the top most quality, reliability and accuracy regardless on whether im going to fight isis with the peshmerga or shooting at the range.

it is not fantasies it is expectations, some of us demand quality for whatever reasons, some of us dont.

I demand quality, some others dont, buy what you want, ill buy what I want. Im not the one shooting your stuff, I dont care, neither should you care about my firearms. But then dont biatch about this or that not fitting because not spec, or unable to remove this or that, or your ar exploding in your face or whatever.
 
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Stray03 said:
Call em whatever makes you feel better but I refuse to call them by some politically correct term just to satisfy some nancy. I own a norinco and for my super awesome back flip 360 shooting it has never let me down. I live in canada not syria so I dont need to bet my life on any of my guns and neither do 99% of you. the rest are issued government property. Stop pretending you are rambo or ready for ze germans or surviving the zombies. Guns are toys or hunting tools. Stop with the childish fantasies.
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I agree with Mike, quality and by that I mean very high quality firearms which include excellent reliability with superb accuracy are important to me; anything less just isn't interesting to me regardless of a requirement to defend a life or not.

Enjoy your rifle, but do not put down others for wanting something more or in the case of a Norinco a lot more... and referring to an AR type rifle as a modern sporting rifle (well at least in the good old U.S of A. anyways) isn't a bad idea and for whats it worth I always refer to every rifle or handgun as what it actually is a "firearm" which I think benefits us all as responsible firearms owners.

Also remember firearms are never toys they are hunting tools, (competitive) sporting equipment and in some cases tools of the trade for our LEO/Mil. etc.

My pick's (other then Colt Canada) would be DD, KAC & LMT; where: Wolverine (DD), One Shot Tactical (KAC) and Questar (LMT).

Cheers D
 
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I'm ex Military, had the great pleasure of using a C8 for a Lot of years. Now as a civilian instructor I own, KAC, BCM, LMT, DD, ASA and Norinco ARs. Out of all of them, the BCM "Jack" carbine is my favorite. Fit and finish are amazing. Works flawlessly all the time with any ammo, in any weather, clean or dirty. It's an outstanding firearm.

*a note about the Norico AR clones: I currently have 7 of them that use for course guns. ALL of them have been very reliable. No issues with any of them. I would easily recommend them for someone looking for a budget friendly AR.

Stay safe.

Will
WGT Consulting.
 
There are so many brands out there, most of them good, more practical question would be which brands are the junk to stay away from. Process of elimination.
 
Stray03 said:
Call em whatever makes you feel better but I refuse to call them by some politically correct term just to satisfy some nancy. I own a norinco and for my super awesome back flip 360 shooting it has never let me down. I live in canada not syria so I dont need to bet my life on any of my guns and neither do 99% of you. the rest are issued government property. Stop pretending you are rambo or ready for ze germans or surviving the zombies. Guns are toys or hunting tools. Stop with the childish fantasies.
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Like cars, nothing wrong with wanting quality or asking about it. None of our cars are usually used the way they're marketed either.

The others have already covered the gambit of good brands. I would add Spike's to that list, but i'm not sure if they make their own or re-brand another companys'. Either way, mine has never had an issue with all kinds of ammo and in all manner of competitions and clinics. It's my hunting AR (in the US) as well owing to it's reliability and accuracy.
 
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I see no mention of Armalite; I bought an 11.5" M-15A4 about 10 years ago and it's been a great rifle. Not sure what the current ones are like.
 
Aniest said:
I am now running CORE15 as the "go to" Armalite Rifle Modern Sporting Firearm of choice. CORE15, maintained lightly, operates the closest to flawless as any other I have tried, even for much more money.
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I have yet to fire one but I was looking at a CORE15 yesterday at a local establishment and was very impressed by it. If I wasn't in the middle of being hammered by expenses I would strongly consider buying one.
 
I don't know what the current Bushmasters are like, but I have one made in the very early 2000s, which has been awesome. Had several Norincos, which were all good. One Olympic Arms, which was terrible. Aside from that, mine have all been Colt. And as of yesterday, an HK, which I haven't even had a chance to try yet!
 
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There are a lot of reputable manufacturers out there, including the Norincos!
Everything mehanical breaks at some point.

Reliability and dependability have more to do with you practicing and training then with a maker.
Holding, aiming, breathing, follow up, stoppages, immediate actions and knowledge of your firearm and its' operation and mechanics.
Buy a little cheaper if you want, spend the extra money on rounds and get in practice.
The most reliable and dependable is the one that you train on and are proficent with.

A lot of guys buy the best, then don't get out to shoot.
That just makes them collectors, not shooters.
It does you no good having a four thousand dollar rifle in the safe under an inch of dust.

Shoot, plink, meet others, learn and have fun.

Rant off,,,.
Seriously at one point I owned fourteen ARs, now I am down to a measly six.
As much as I could compare them to one another, they were all functional.
 
Zeroed-In said:
Also remember firearms are never toys they are hunting tools, (competitive) sporting equipment and in some cases tools of the trade for our LEO/Mil. etc.
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They are almost always toys. If you are not hunting with them, protecting yourself with them, or professionally shooting targets, you are using them for fun, to enjoy yourself and therefore toys. I call my firearms toys, and they will always be my toys.


I told you I'm not playing into this Politically correct BS, I own a CQA which is a copy of an AR-15, not a "modern sporting rifle", or a police carbine, or anything else other than that. My M305 is a copy of an M14, nothing else. Is it shocking to some people? who cares, do the anti's use that as ammunition against us Who cares, I'm not going to sit there trying to mislead people by denying what my guns are, or giving them cute little names.

All calling AR's "modern hunting rifles" does is make us look pompous, especially when people see that our modern hunting rifle is actually an AR-15 lookalike.

Hey I'm so happy I just bought a modern sporting rifle!
-Cool!
Want to see it?
-Sure.
- looks like an AR-15
well... yeah... it is
-so what the hell is a "modern sporting rifle"
well it is an AR-15
-So why not just call it an ar-15 so that people know what you are talking about from the start.
Well it is because I am trying to give it a better image after the evil communist anti gun scum bags from liberal land Toronto made AR-15's look bad.
- ... You sir are an Idiot.


Back on topic, My norc hasn't let me down, and it is a second hand toy. Then again I buy guns to keep as their "standard" look, so I don't feel the need to add extended this, and super smooth that, and makes me think I shoot better thing a ma jig.
The AR was designed to be cheap to make, easy to field strip and use so that 18 year olds could be taught how to use and clean them with no prior shooting experience, and to be able to hit a man sized target out to 400-600 yards. I bought it for it's mechanics, not for it's "Customisability". Makes noise when I pull the trigger, hits what I aim at and works like a neutered Armalite.
 
lawn gnome said:
It does you no good having a four thousand dollar rifle in the safe under an inch of dust.
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I rather have my 3 Colt Canadas in the safe collecting dust, Rather than having a dozen Noriko's or NEas... I dont have time to shoot on a regular basis but that doesn't mean I should buy junk either. ;)
 
Lol, guys have won sr matches with Norks. While a fancy gun is very nice to own, it won't make a difference if you never shoot and build your skills.
 
Stray03 said:
They are almost always toys. If you are not hunting with them, protecting yourself with them, or professionally shooting targets, you are using them for fun, to enjoy yourself and therefore toys. I call my firearms toys, and they will always be my toys. I told you I'm not playing into this Politically correct BS, I own a CQA which is a copy of an AR-15, not a "modern sporting rifle", or a police carbine, or anything else other than that. My M305 is a copy of an M14, nothing else. Is it shocking to some people? who cares, do the anti's use that as ammunition against us Who cares, I'm not going to sit there trying to mislead people by denying what my guns are, or giving them cute little names. All calling AR's "modern hunting rifles" does is make us look pompous, especially when people see that our modern hunting rifle is actually an AR-15 lookalike.Hey I'm so happy I just bought a modern sporting rifle!-Cool!Want to see it?-Sure.- looks like an AR-15well... yeah... it is-so what the hell is a "modern sporting rifle"well it is an AR-15-So why not just call it an ar-15 so that people know what you are talking about from the start.Well it is because I am trying to give it a better image after the evil communist anti gun scum bags from liberal land Toronto made AR-15's look bad.- ... You sir are an Idiot.Back on topic, My norc hasn't let me down, and it is a second hand toy. Then again I buy guns to keep as their "standard" look, so I don't feel the need to add extended this, and super smooth that, and makes me think I shoot better thing a ma jig. The AR was designed to be cheap to make, easy to field strip and use so that 18 year olds could be taught how to use and clean them with no prior shooting experience, and to be able to hit a man sized target out to 400-600 yards. I bought it for it's mechanics, not for it's "Customisability". Makes noise when I pull the trigger, hits what I aim at and works like a neutered Armalite.
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The problem is the antis don't call your rifle an AR-15. They call it an "assault rifle" or the even more BS gun control buzz word "assault weapon". Both have extremely negative connotations in the media and amongst the non-gun owning public. They have been used to demonize all black rifles.Adopting the term modern sporting rifle is a deliberate attempt to reframe the debate in our favor and to help dispel much of the negative mythos the civil disarmament movement have created about military-style semi-auto rifles. You can be loud and proud all you want, but the antis aren't listening and the media will simply write you off as just another angry redneck with a gun. Framing your AR within the context of just another sporting rifle helps tear down their boogeyman and show the public that black rifles are legitimate sporting rifles, no different than any other sporting rifle of a more traditional design.
 
lawn gnome said:
There are a lot of reputable manufacturers out there, including the Norincos!
Everything mehanical breaks at some point.

Reliability and dependability have more to do with you practicing and training then with a maker.
Holding, aiming, breathing, follow up, stoppages, immediate actions and knowledge of your firearm and its' operation and mechanics.
Buy a little cheaper if you want, spend the extra money on rounds and get in practice.
The most reliable and dependable is the one that you train on and are proficent with.

A lot of guys buy the best, then don't get out to shoot.
That just makes them collectors, not shooters.
It does you no good having a four thousand dollar rifle in the safe under an inch of dust.

Shoot, plink, meet others, learn and have fun.

Rant off,,,.
Seriously at one point I owned fourteen ARs, now I am down to a measly six.
As much as I could compare them to one another, they were all functional.
Click to expand...


Reliability has absolutely everything to do with who made the rifle and what quality of parts and craftsmanship went into them, it has absolutely nothing to do with how well you can load, unload, clear a stoppage or shoot. Dependability is based on how well the rifle performs or performed and how frequent or infrequent it failed or needed attention. Both reliability and dependability are supported by the quality of the rifle. A high quality rifle will consist of high quality parts manufactured with high quality/proper materials to proper specs by properly trained personnel. When a high quality rifle is then shot, and shot and shot without issue and with consistent results it has then proven to be reliable. If the rifle is reliable then it is by default dependable.

I agree that too many spend the budget on the gun and have little leftover for ammo or training. On the flip side, if your rifle doesn't run properly then having that ammo is of little use. I have seen many low end guns/optics and I've seen many high/er end guns/optics on both the range and at matches, and I see a few reoccurring patterns. The majority of shooters have very little to no training, and spend very little time and ammo practicing or mastering the basics of operating their guns. The skill level is not directly related to the quality of the equipment being used. The number of low end guns that go down compared to known brands is very high.

What I see from the above data is this:

For the folks who say "buy cheap and spend the difference on ammo/training/better optics".... No one appears to be doing that, rather they spend the savings on another low end firearm/product.

The number of guys running low end gear that end up buying high/er end gear is both predictable and significant. The number of guys with high/er end gear that feel they've over spent and decide to down grade, is zero..

The number of times I've seen low end gear place at a match... Zero. Which means the quality of the gear does indeed play a role in how well one can perform. That being said, I have seen folks with iron sighted AR's and VZ's absolutely demolish people with very expensive optics on their rifles. Equipment plays a role, but it is still the shooter that makes the shot; If his rifle works..

TW25B
 
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