anyone reload 303 british?
- Thread starter laurencen
- Start date
The only downside to .303 in a SMLE type rifle is the locking lugs a the rear of the bolt allow for a minute amount of bolt flex. The brass can stretch and separate 1/2 inch from the rim after only 1 or two reloadings. The large military chambers don't help either.
Neck sizing will help a small amount but you will still get head separation.
If you have a rifle that locks up front it is pretty straight forward.
I would recommend getting a manual like the ABC's of reloading and familiarize yourself with bottle neck cartridge reloading.
Neck sizing will help a small amount but you will still get head separation.
If you have a rifle that locks up front it is pretty straight forward.
I would recommend getting a manual like the ABC's of reloading and familiarize yourself with bottle neck cartridge reloading.
The instructions in any manual for rifle reloading will apply with several caveats.
The bore and groove diameter can vary tremendously in old milsurps. They can range from nearly .308" to at least .317". Slugging your bore is one way to check (pound a lead ball down the barrel with a dowel or brass rod) and it's best to use a micrometer, not a caliper, as you want to get as close as possible. If it's a 5-groove barrel it's problematic to measure. A second way is just to try bullets of different diameter and see which ones shoot best and if any of them tumble. .303B bullets are available in .3105", .311", and .312". I have a Martini-Enfield that slugs .3165" but will still shoot .312" decently well. I used to have a No.1 Mk.3 that slugged .315" and it also shot .312" decently. In both rifles, .3105" bullets tumble and keyhole quite often (but not every shot). I have a 2-groove No.4 Mk.1 now that mics .313" but it'll eat anything (I guess the lack of rifling causes more material to swage down into the two grooves that are there).
If you're shooting cast bullets it's a whole other matter. If that's the case you really want the bullets to be .001" to .002" oversized. Personally I cast .311", .314", and .317" for various .303B rifles. If you don't cast yourself, and you have an oversized bore, good luck.
Case head separation is another problem with many milsurp .303B's. The heads of the cases stretch backwards if you try to headspace them off of the rim. In nearly all rifles, even the worst ones for headspace problems, the first round is unlikely to cause the case head to come off so it was good enough for the military who had no interest in reloading cases. Neck sizing only, or FL sizing but adjusting the die so it just kisses the top of the shoulder, are the two normal ways to extend case life. This allows the cases to, in essence, headspace off of the shoulder which will put the case head against the bolt face instead of having it floating in the air inside the chamber.
I don't like going to the range without a broken case extractor in .303B if I'm shooting any reloads. Even if I checked the cases and they don't appear to have case head stretching problems, they can still pop off sometimes. A broken case extractor will save your shooting session from ending early. I got mine for under $20 and I've had to use it a half dozen times in the past few years. When a case head separates you will get a little puff of gas in your face (always wear safety glasses while shooting) and you may have a sooted up chamber.
I'm sure BigEdP51 will be here soon to drop his wisdom and very helpful pictures related to .303B reloading.
I have some RP brass that I bought new, used the o-ring trick on to fire form, and usually just neck size but sometimes when they get stiff I'll use a FL sizing die but only ever kiss the shoulder. They are up to 6-7 firings and none of them have had a separation yet. If you setup the brass to headspace off the shoulder instead of the rim, they will last as long as any other average brass. I also anneal every 4-5 firings to avoid split necks.
The bore and groove diameter can vary tremendously in old milsurps. They can range from nearly .308" to at least .317". Slugging your bore is one way to check (pound a lead ball down the barrel with a dowel or brass rod) and it's best to use a micrometer, not a caliper, as you want to get as close as possible. If it's a 5-groove barrel it's problematic to measure. A second way is just to try bullets of different diameter and see which ones shoot best and if any of them tumble. .303B bullets are available in .3105", .311", and .312". I have a Martini-Enfield that slugs .3165" but will still shoot .312" decently well. I used to have a No.1 Mk.3 that slugged .315" and it also shot .312" decently. In both rifles, .3105" bullets tumble and keyhole quite often (but not every shot). I have a 2-groove No.4 Mk.1 now that mics .313" but it'll eat anything (I guess the lack of rifling causes more material to swage down into the two grooves that are there).
If you're shooting cast bullets it's a whole other matter. If that's the case you really want the bullets to be .001" to .002" oversized. Personally I cast .311", .314", and .317" for various .303B rifles. If you don't cast yourself, and you have an oversized bore, good luck.
Case head separation is another problem with many milsurp .303B's. The heads of the cases stretch backwards if you try to headspace them off of the rim. In nearly all rifles, even the worst ones for headspace problems, the first round is unlikely to cause the case head to come off so it was good enough for the military who had no interest in reloading cases. Neck sizing only, or FL sizing but adjusting the die so it just kisses the top of the shoulder, are the two normal ways to extend case life. This allows the cases to, in essence, headspace off of the shoulder which will put the case head against the bolt face instead of having it floating in the air inside the chamber.
I don't like going to the range without a broken case extractor in .303B if I'm shooting any reloads. Even if I checked the cases and they don't appear to have case head stretching problems, they can still pop off sometimes. A broken case extractor will save your shooting session from ending early. I got mine for under $20 and I've had to use it a half dozen times in the past few years. When a case head separates you will get a little puff of gas in your face (always wear safety glasses while shooting) and you may have a sooted up chamber.
I'm sure BigEdP51 will be here soon to drop his wisdom and very helpful pictures related to .303B reloading.
The rear locking bolt isn't the main part of the problem. The oversized military chambers is what causes most of the problem. One of the worst .303B rifles I had for case head separation was a P14 which is in essence a Mauser action. The shoulder of the chamber was so far forward the cases could practically rattle around inside if they were FL resized.
I have some RP brass that I bought new, used the o-ring trick on to fire form, and usually just neck size but sometimes when they get stiff I'll use a FL sizing die but only ever kiss the shoulder. They are up to 6-7 firings and none of them have had a separation yet. If you setup the brass to headspace off the shoulder instead of the rim, they will last as long as any other average brass. I also anneal every 4-5 firings to avoid split necks.
Last edited:
Agreed on the O-ring trick, and by the way, you can load 32 cal (.312) pistol bullets in your .303, using Trail Boss powder for a reduced load. About 1/3 the recoil, and accurate out to 50yds for (relatively) cheap plinking.
It was BigEd who suggested it (he uses it for fireforming), and it's great fun.
It was BigEd who suggested it (he uses it for fireforming), and it's great fun.
I've been reloading for Lee Enfields for many moons and endorse the idea of neck sizing after the initial firing fire forms the case to the chamber. I find that the Lee Collet Die works well for neck sizing. Some good propellants to try incl IMR4064, IMR4895, IMR4320, IMR4350, Varget, Re15, W760 and H414. It pays to experiment with a variety of .311/.312 bullets as well to find the best accuracy. My long standing hunting load in a No5 JC uses the Speer 180gr round nose bullet and IMR4064.
I just did up some reloads for a MkIII using Varget and Hornady 174grFMJ, Sierra 174gr Match, Sierra 180gr SP and Sierra 150gr SP bullets and am looking fwd to see the results. Used neck sized DIZ 1944 brass with Rem 91/2 primers.
I just did up some reloads for a MkIII using Varget and Hornady 174grFMJ, Sierra 174gr Match, Sierra 180gr SP and Sierra 150gr SP bullets and am looking fwd to see the results. Used neck sized DIZ 1944 brass with Rem 91/2 primers.
Here is the real problem with resizing for the Enfield rifle, the American SAAMI sets the dimensions for the full length resizing dies. The British reamed and enlarged the Enfields chambers in 1914 larger in diameter and longer to the chambers shoulder. This was to make room for the mud of Flanders fields and because of a ammunition scandal over who was awarded contracts to make .303 ammunition. And much of this ammunition was defective and would not chamber properly with the older smaller chambers.
Now is the secret where the problem got really out of hand, the British were still mad at the American colonialists for dumping British tea in Boston harbor. So to get even the British never told the American SAAMI they made the .303 British Enfield chambers bigger. Then the British burned Washington D.C. and the American SAAMI to get even made the reloading dies even smaller.
The trick to reloading the British .303 Enfield military rifle is to "NEVER" full length resize your cases unless you want them to fall apart early. The next trick is to use Prvi Partizan brass that is larger in base diameter, is .010 thicker in the base web area and had thicker rims.
Below the amount the .303 case is sticking above the Wilson case gauge is how much "longer" the military chamber is than the SAAMI civilian chamber and dies. And if you full length resize your cases you will push the shoulder of the case back too far and encourage case head separations. A new off the shelf factory rifle with its headspace set between a GO and No GO gauge can have approximately .003 head clearance or air space between the rear of the case and the bolt face. And a Enfield rifle at maximum military headspace can have as much as .017 head clearance.
So what you do is neck size only and make your cases headspace on the shoulder and not the rim for long case life. Then if you just want to bump the shoulder back when the cases are a snug fit in the chamber you use a .303 British case forming and trim die to bump the shoulder. The case forming die does not touch the body of the case or the case neck and only contacts the case shoulder.
Below is a .303 British case forming and trim die, in the die is a fired case and the only thing from keeping the case from falling out is my little finger.
Then after reloading your cases all you need is the best beer made in North American in Pennsylvania U.S.A.
Now is the secret where the problem got really out of hand, the British were still mad at the American colonialists for dumping British tea in Boston harbor. So to get even the British never told the American SAAMI they made the .303 British Enfield chambers bigger. Then the British burned Washington D.C. and the American SAAMI to get even made the reloading dies even smaller.
The trick to reloading the British .303 Enfield military rifle is to "NEVER" full length resize your cases unless you want them to fall apart early. The next trick is to use Prvi Partizan brass that is larger in base diameter, is .010 thicker in the base web area and had thicker rims.
Below the amount the .303 case is sticking above the Wilson case gauge is how much "longer" the military chamber is than the SAAMI civilian chamber and dies. And if you full length resize your cases you will push the shoulder of the case back too far and encourage case head separations. A new off the shelf factory rifle with its headspace set between a GO and No GO gauge can have approximately .003 head clearance or air space between the rear of the case and the bolt face. And a Enfield rifle at maximum military headspace can have as much as .017 head clearance.
So what you do is neck size only and make your cases headspace on the shoulder and not the rim for long case life. Then if you just want to bump the shoulder back when the cases are a snug fit in the chamber you use a .303 British case forming and trim die to bump the shoulder. The case forming die does not touch the body of the case or the case neck and only contacts the case shoulder.
Below is a .303 British case forming and trim die, in the die is a fired case and the only thing from keeping the case from falling out is my little finger.
Then after reloading your cases all you need is the best beer made in North American in Pennsylvania U.S.A.
Last edited:
Just finished running some cheap rounds through my P14....I use Herters cases (thick), still available at Higginsons.
42gr Surplus WC 735, 123gr .311 FMJ, was running 2800 fps over the chrony, surprised by the accuracy, light recoil.
39.2gr of the same with 150 interlock .312 was 2500fps and also very accurate.
My P14 likes flat base bullets better.
42gr Surplus WC 735, 123gr .311 FMJ, was running 2800 fps over the chrony, surprised by the accuracy, light recoil.
39.2gr of the same with 150 interlock .312 was 2500fps and also very accurate.
My P14 likes flat base bullets better.
Wow, Higginson's is still selling Herter's .303 brass. It was made up for Herters by Sako and it is good brass. A few comparative weights of .303 brass from top to bottom; HXP 75 (Greek military) 185.9gr, Herter 176.9, WRA 171.5, Norma 168.2, Fed 167, DIZ 1944 167, Rem 161.6, Imperial 158.9.
I also got a quantity of Herter/Sako 7x57 Mauser brass from Higginson some years ago. It is also comparatively heavy weighing in at 201gr compared to Rem at 185.4 and WRA at 168.1gr.
I also got a quantity of Herter/Sako 7x57 Mauser brass from Higginson some years ago. It is also comparatively heavy weighing in at 201gr compared to Rem at 185.4 and WRA at 168.1gr.
Below is a factory loaded once fired Winchester case and it stretched .009 on its first firing and the headspace was set at .066. The case stretched because it had thin rims and had .009 head clearance. And the rear locking lugs had nothing to do with this so remember the Remington 788 rifles had rear locking lugs also and it didn't get the same bad rap as the military Enfield rifle did.
The rear locking lugs had nothing to do with the case stretching above, the case stretched because of the large amount of head clearance it had. Remember a new rifle will have at maximum between the GO and NO GO gauge of .003 head clearance. And a civilian SAAMI case was never designed to be fired at the longer headspace settings the military Enfield rifle has.
And if you use a small thin rubber O-ring to fireform your cases the case is held against the bolt face and can't stretch.
Below is an example of a cartridge being fired, the primer backs out of the primer pocket and then the case stretches to meet the bolt face. And as long as the head clearance is kept to minimum you will not exceed the elastic limits of the brass and the case will not stretch.
Last edited:
Yeah, its nice thick brass, very minimal expansion rings when fired, and at $16/50 hard to beat the price. Some pieces may be tarnished with age but they can be cleaned up easy. They are made by Metallverken in Sweden (not sako).
Some of that Herters 303 brass does not have the relief cut ahead of the rim - in the batch I got it was about 50/50. The cases without the relief cut proved to be unusable with the Mauser style extractor used in the P-14's.
