What caliber? What rifle?

DarkSkyx

DarkSkyx

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For summary of my question, see the bottom of this post :)
I got my license last year.

Now own 4 handguns (.22LR, 9mm, 40S&W, 357mag)
and 5 long guns (.22LR, 40S&W carbine, 12ga pump, 7.62x39, 7.62x54R)

I originally got my license because I wanted to eventually get into hunting. As there are no rifle ranges close by, I basically just shoot handguns (and rimfire/40S&W rifles at my range).

I want to buy 1 *good* rifle to start off with. By good, I dont mean $4000. But $1500 and under, and not a $300 jobby.

I've always had a 'thing' for 30-06, as it's very popular, and can be used to take down anything in N.America (I don't have tens of thousands for an African hunt, and the main reason for my hunting will be to put meat in the freezer).

BUT... I would also like a rifle which can perform well when benchrest shooting, as this will probably be most of the shooting I'll be doing with it. I'm not even sure when I'll finally get to go on my first hunt.

SO... what's a good caliber that is strong enough to take down any game in N.America, and is also a good benchrest shooter? (200yrd max is about what the only range semi-close to me (Silverdale) has).

.270 ?

I'd PREFER to not go anything smaller than 30-06, and I WILL be reloading, so price per cartridge isn't a huge deal (especially since I won't be shooting it all that often).

300 Winmag or 300 WSM ?

Preferably something not TOO big, because if I'm doing most of my shooting with it benchrest shooting, I'll need something I'll want to shoot repeatedly, and not get tired of heavy recoil. I had initially wantd to go with 30-378 but with 100+ gr of powder each load, and the heavy recoil, I'd probably grow weary of it quick. I've got a recoil pad and can shoot 1750fps 1oz slugs from 3" shotgun all day long with the pad on, so recoil a bit more than 30-06 doesn't bother me. I'm just being realistic. 'Not going to sit here and type "I can shoot .416 all day long with no recoil pad'.

But from the charts I've seen and web calculators I've used, a 1750fps 1oz 3" slug shot from my 7lb shotgun (Weatherby PA-08 Upload) produces about 37.4 lbs of recoil, and that's about as I high as I want.

For guns, I've always liked the Browning X-Bolts. 'Never shot one, and have only handled one at a shop once, but I like the Browning name over Remington. Ideally I'd love a Weatherby rifle but they're $3000-4000 or more. One last thing: I definitely want to go WOOD stock. Sure laminate or plastic is probably better for accuracy, especially when benchrest shooting, but dammit, I want wood :p

Right now I have my eye on a Browning X-Bolt Hunter in 30-06. Just scared the 30-06 will let me down when I'm shooting for accuracy at the range. Although, I could always buy a 2nd rifle (6, 6.5mm) JUST for benchrest shooting down the road...

LONG STORY SHORT:

What's a good calibery for all N.American hunting, something not much lower than 30-06, and what rifle would you choose (I'm guessing something with a longer barrle, since I'll be wanting to shoot for accuracy when benchrest shooting).

Thanks in advance for your replies!
 
DarkSkyx said:
Just scared the 30-06 will let me down when I'm shooting for accuracy at the range.
Click to expand...

The .30-06 will be fine in terms of accuracy for the range distances at Silverdale. Since the rifle will primarily be used for target shooting you may wish to consider a .308 instead.
 
I'm not sure I would want to challenge a pissed off grizzly bear, or brown bear with a 308, or 30/06. Little light for me. Close range with heavy loads maybe, but at distance I would go with a 300 WM or 300 Wby since you want to stay 30 cal or bigger. I would be happier with a 9.3*62Both the 308 & 30/06 can also be fine tuned for accuracy. For a secondary rifle calibre my preference would be 7x57. Excellent bullet to calibre ratio. You can take most animals in N/A. Rifle calibre also depends on area being hunted. My rifle preference would be a CZ or Win M70 Controlled Round Feed. Scope depends again on area being hunted. A decent quality 2-8x32, or 3-9x40 should do you. Go to your LGS and shoulder a few rifles to get a comfortable feel. My 2 cents!
 
Here's my 2 cents..... I started back into guns about 3 years ago. I started with a Tikka T3 Lite in .308. Absolutely great hunting gun for deer, moose, elk, antelope (if you get close enough).

At that time, I wasn't interested in long range, but now I very much am.

If I were you, I'd look at a .300WSM. It packs enough punch for any non-dangerous NA game. It can reach out and poke an antelope or sheep at 600yds. It's likely OK against a pissed off grizzly. I'd opt for one that has a heavier barrel based on your desire to shoot targets, but the trade off if carrying it when you hunt. .300WSM has great ballistics for the range and the hunt. It's not the least expensive to reload, but it's not a 30-378 or a .338LM either.

I just picked up a Tikka T3 Varmint in .300WSM, and I'm VERY excited. Deadly accurate, not too heavy to carry, would be pretty good at the target range, and would be awesome at the range with a fairly inexpensive stock swap - such as a Boyd with some added weight (mercury tubes +/- some lead shot in the forestock) and a nice bedding job. You could put the factory stock back on for hunting, and have it wear the heavy stock for the other 11 months of the year. A brake will be almost a must - we have Black Rose brakes on our T3's and love them, not terribly pricey either.

A Savage 110 Long Range Hunter is a great option in this caliber as well - and I'd say the same plan would be great on that gun.

Your glass and mounts are worth spending on too. If you're in the 1000-2000$ range, my suggestion would be a Vortex PST 6-24, unless you can find a steal on a NF or a S&B. I did find great deals on Bushnell Tactical's at Wholesale last year, and bought the 3-21 and 4.5-30. Don't cheap out on your rings, but you don't have to spend 300$ either.

You'll want a bipod. On a budget I'd suggest a Champion pivot traverse at 60-80$. Harris would be the next step up at 100-150$, and from their you're into 250$+ for an Atlas or LRM, etc.

You'll get lots of opinions, take 'em all in and make the decision you think is best for you!!!
 
First of all, where is the area that you would be shooting/hunting in? That will govern a lot of your choice.

Plains area, reach out to touch them, wooded area, close range for example. One means longer range, the other shot ranges. A 30.06 would do both.
 
Weatherby vanguard laser mark I think it's called in 30-06
It's the right caliber for any hunting of NA big game. Bison and grizzly it could work but it sounds like they're not on your list due to financials. I'm in the same vote currently
But with this you get an accurate 30-06
Wood stock. The laser engraving is nice. It looks more expensive then it is
Aftermarket stocks are available if you want a bench rifle stock for the summer shooting season or a stock to drag thru the bush
I can't post pix but I'm sure someone can thru a Google pic up
 
8x68 said:
I'm not sure I would want to challenge a pissed off grizzly bear, or brown bear with a 308, or 30/06. Little light for me. Close range with heavy loads maybe, but at distance I would go with a 300 WM or 300 Wby since you want to stay 30 cal or bigger. I would be happier with a 9.3*62Both the 308 & 30/06 can also be fine tuned for accuracy. For a secondary rifle calibre my preference would be 7x57. Excellent bullet to calibre ratio. You can take most animals in N/A. Rifle calibre also depends on area being hunted. My rifle preference would be a CZ or Win M70 Controlled Round Feed. Scope depends again on area being hunted. A decent quality 2-8x32, or 3-9x40 should do you. Go to your LGS and shoulder a few rifles to get a comfortable feel. My 2 cents!
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I for one don't feel unarmed when I carry a .30/06, around the big guys. The .30/06 is a versatile cartridge, flat shooting, accurate, and powerful without having unmanageable recoil, and it becomes even more versatile through handloading. As a match cartridge, the '06 has an enviable track record, and is still a dangerous competitor today, as proven by German Salazar, whose exploits with the .30/06 are recorded in The Rifleman's Journal, which is available on line.
 
Boomer;11706358[B said:
]I for one don't feel unarmed when I carry a .30/06, around the big guys. [/B]The .30/06 is a versatile cartridge, flat shooting, accurate, and powerful without having unmanageable recoil, and it becomes even more versatile through handloading. As a match cartridge, the '06 has an enviable track record, and is still a dangerous competitor today, as proven by German Salazar, whose exploits with the .30/06 are recorded in The Rifleman's Journal, which is available on line.
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This from a guy who usually packs a 375 RUM....................;);););)
 
Any of the .300 mags in a rifle that fits you will do the trick. Once you get the gun and caliber figured out, then you can toy with the right load for your gun and game.
 
THanks for all the great replies!

I wish I knew someone with a bunch of heavy(er) calibers so I could test-shoot just to see if recoil is something I could shoot all day long at the range without developing a flinch. Right now I'm going by recoil charts in pounds, and yah.. the 37 or 38 lbs a 3" shotgun shell shooting 1oz slugs at 1750fps is about as much as I want. Gives some bad bruising if no recoil pad is used.

As for area, it will more than likely be mostly northern Ontario.

I *would* like to go into magnums (300 winmag, 300WSM, 338, whatever), but all the caliber books I've read (I'm currently reading "Cartridges of the World") state that barrels for magnums don't last as long. Strange though, as 30-06 is shown to be 60,000PSI and magnums often only 65,000 ... I wouldn't have thought an 8% increase would be so detrimental to a barrel's life.

If all the accuracy issues which I've read (albeit mostly online) of the 30-06 aren't as bad as they say, and it can be an enjoyable benchrest shooter, I'll start with that. Probably a Browning X-Bolt Hunter model in 30-06. If for whatever reason it doesn't meet my needs, I can get another one of my dream guns.. a Weatherby Mark V in 30-338. If it turns out I can't get enough opportunities to hunt as I'd like, maybe I'll get a dedicated benchrest shooter of a smaller caliber.
 
Not a bad way of thinking.

Don't forget about the option of stock swapping to add weight, stability, and lower recoil. A great Boyd is only about 300$.

Barrel life is a concern, but a lot of target calibers are hard on them.

-J.
 
Avoid 30-06 if possible.
It is boring
It is not cool
It is not old enough to be called legend or legacy or vintage or whatever, but it is too old to inspire a new hunter

You need something with distinction. 30-06 only serves to blur everything
 
8x68 said:
I'm not sure I would want to challenge a pissed off grizzly bear, or brown bear with a 308, or 30/06. Little light for me. Close range with heavy loads maybe, but at distance I would go with a 300 WM or 300 Wby since you want to stay 30 cal or bigger. I would be happier with a 9.3*62Both the 308 & 30/06 can also be fine tuned for accuracy. For a secondary rifle calibre my preference would be 7x57. Excellent bullet to calibre ratio. You can take most animals in N/A. Rifle calibre also depends on area being hunted. My rifle preference would be a CZ or Win M70 Controlled Round Feed. Scope depends again on area being hunted. A decent quality 2-8x32, or 3-9x40 should do you. Go to your LGS and shoulder a few rifles to get a comfortable feel. My 2 cents!
Click to expand...

I got the impression the OP won't be going after any Bears any time soon. :)

DarkSkyx said:
THanks for all the great replies!

I wish I knew someone with a bunch of heavy(er) calibers so I could test-shoot just to see if recoil is something I could shoot all day long at the range without developing a flinch. Right now I'm going by recoil charts in pounds, and yah.. the 37 or 38 lbs a 3" shotgun shell shooting 1oz slugs at 1750fps is about as much as I want. Gives some bad bruising if no recoil pad is used.

As for area, it will more than likely be mostly northern Ontario.

I *would* like to go into magnums (300 winmag, 300WSM, 338, whatever), but all the caliber books I've read (I'm currently reading "Cartridges of the World") state that barrels for magnums don't last as long. Strange though, as 30-06 is shown to be 60,000PSI and magnums often only 65,000 ... I wouldn't have thought an 8% increase would be so detrimental to a barrel's life.

If all the accuracy issues which I've read (albeit mostly online) of the 30-06 aren't as bad as they say, and it can be an enjoyable benchrest shooter, I'll start with that. Probably a Browning X-Bolt Hunter model in 30-06. If for whatever reason it doesn't meet my needs, I can get another one of my dream guns.. a Weatherby Mark V in 30-338. If it turns out I can't get enough opportunities to hunt as I'd like, maybe I'll get a dedicated benchrest shooter of a smaller caliber.
Click to expand...

Very few people can comfortably enjoy shooting magnum cartridges in a scenario such as a prolonged range session. Not exactly comparing apples-to-apples but you may wish to think about how comfortable (or not) you may have been when shooting your 7.62x54 (Mosin, I assume?) perhaps all day long as you put it. :) Needless to mention, given the exorbitant cost of ammo now-a-days, if one is not a handloader, the wallet will receive a severe dent, so to speak, if the intent is to regularly shoot stuff such as .300 Win Mag or WSM etc.

To somewhat alleviate your concerns regarding accuracy of a .30-06 - you may wish to look at the following thread where I had posted a couple targets shot at 100 with three rifles. As I said before, the cartridge will do just fine out to 200 (and more) and the Silverdale range that you presently have access to doesn't have anything longer than 200 yards. Again, should the intent be to primarily punch paper with superior accuracy as well as remain on the perimeter of a very manageable .30 cal hunting rifle then also consider the .308 Win.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...oose-Deer-Elk-rifle-So-hard-to-chose-PLZ-HELP

The topic of proper rifle selection (brand +other aspects etc) will be a different subject .....
 
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The .300 magnums and .338 are not to far off what you have been experiencing with the 12ga in terms of recoil. You had mentioned about barrel burn out. It would take consistently shooting hundreds and hundreds of "hot loads" to wear out today's manufactured barrels. Throat erosion would probably happen faster than barrel wear would. A 30/06 as others have mentioned will be the best for you if your concerned with recoil. If it bothers you that much there are systems available to help reduce "felt recoil"
 
Ahsan Ahmed said:
I got the impression the OP won't be going after any Bears any time soon. :)


Very few people can comfortably enjoy shooting magnum cartridges in a scenario such as a prolonged range session. Not exactly comparing apples-to-apples but you may wish to think about how comfortable (or not) you may have been when shooting your 7.62x54 (Mosin, I assume?) perhaps all day long as you put it. :) Needless to mention, given the exorbitant cost of ammo now-a-days, if one is not a handloader, the wallet will receive a severe dent, so to speak, if the intent is to regularly shoot stuff such as .300 Win Mag or WSM etc.

To somewhat alleviate your concerns regarding accuracy of a .30-06 - you may wish to look at the following thread where I had posted a couple targets shot at 100 with three rifles. As I said before, the cartridge will do just fine out to 200 (and more) and the Silverdale range that you presently have access to doesn't have anything longer than 200 yards. Again, should the intent be to primarily punch paper with superior accuracy as well as remain on the perimeter of a very manageable .30 cal hunting rifle then also consider the .308 Win.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...oose-Deer-Elk-rifle-So-hard-to-chose-PLZ-HELP

The topic of proper rifle selection (brand +other aspects etc) will be a different subject .....
Click to expand...

Nothing big enough around here and I definitely wouldn't be using a 308 or 30/06 if I had the opportunity to hunt BIG bears. As mentioned above BORING CALIBRES!!! I would choose a a 375H&H myself.... A classic calibre which I can shoot well.
 
Ahsan Ahmed said:
I got the impression the OP won't be going after any Bears any time soon. :)
Click to expand...

Nope. Not browns/grizzlys or polar bears at least. We have black bears up at our cottage, but right now my focus in hunting will be for the meat. 'Never had bear, but I've had venison and moose, and enjoy both, so I'll stick with them for the time I start hunting :)

Not exactly comparing apples-to-apples but you may wish to think about how comfortable (or not) you may have been when shooting your 7.62x54 (Mosin, I assume?) perhaps all day long as you put it. :)
Click to expand...

Before I shot my 7.62x54 (yes, Mosin 91/30), the only centerfire rifle I had shot was my 7.62x39 SKS, which has pretty much no recoil. So, I given the difference in the size in cartridge, I was really expecting a buck from the Mosin, also since it's bolt action and the SKS is semi. Shooting on a hot day in just a tshirt, I really didn't find the Mosin much more than th SKS. And even though the Mosin is much longer, it's probably not that much more heavy. Web lookup shows SKS at 8.5lbs, and Mosin at 8.8lbs. I could easily comfortably shoot something with more recoil than the 7x62.54 Mosin for long periods. A recoil chart shows the 7.62.54R at 13.1lbs with a 9lb gun, 30-06 around 20lbs with an 8lb gun. So for long shooting periods (ie: range all afternoon), a 30-06 is probably as far as I'd want to go in terms of recoil for repeated shooting. I know with my Weatherby PA-08 Upland (pump) shotgun, shooting 3" shells, 1750fps, 1oz slugs, a flinch developed pretty quickly. It's rated at about 37-38lbs of felt recoil. So a ballpark guess, I'd say under 30 is where I'd like to stay at. Of course, I have a wearable recoil pad, and when wearing it, I can shoot those slugs time after time. But I'd prefer something that I can comfortably shoot for long periods without a pad.

That group with 150gr with the Tikka look nice.

Needless to mention, given the exorbitant cost of ammo now-a-days, if one is not a handloader, the wallet will receive a severe dent, so to speak, if the intent is to regularly shoot stuff such as .300 Win Mag or WSM etc.
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Yah, after a few initial boxes of factory ammo for the brass, I'll be reloading.

What was the barrel length on the Tikka? The Browning X-Bolt that I was looking at is 22". 'Not sure how much that would affect accuracy (benchshooting) compared to say 24" or 26" barrels. I see the Remington 700 CDL is 24". Weatherby Vanguard Delux 24" as well.
 
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