M305 Feed-ramp problem - Fixed

Zen_Seeker

Zen_Seeker

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Hi!

Thought I'd ask the group if my problem was a known issue or one unique to my rifle. I have a Norinco M305 that seems okay with soft point ammo but FMJ points seem to dig into the feed-ramp and stop the action. When I looked closer I noticed that the tips of the SP and FMJ rounds I cycled through the action come out marred. The last one or two rounds feeding and looking best. I've tried the two stock magazines as well as two new ones I bought with the same results.

I think I could use a round file to smooth out the feed-ramp and stop the issue. It only seems to happen on the right side. Would this be a problem or cause other issues? I don't want to use a grease or oil that might get on the bullet head and risk some getting in the barrel.

TIA, Zen
 
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How is the barrel indexing? under or over indexed?
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Seems fine. Pretty accurate.

Is this a brand new rifle? Warranty an option?
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Yes, it's new, about a month old. No refunds or exchanges but I can cause a scene if need be. ;)


I took it all apart again and greased it up some more after double checking the tilt tests. I needed to hammer the rod straight but it seems a bit better now and only needs a bit of help closing the chamber for the first few rounds. It has a new M14.ca spring guide that doesn't seem to quite line up the way the old one did but I can't say that is the issue either. Either the magazines aren't lifting the nose high enough, the bolt is not pushing smoothly, or the rod is grabbing.

I cleaned the feed-ramps as well and so far things are better but still grabby. If I can get to the range this weekend I'm hoping that shooting a few dozen more rounds might sort things out.

Thanks, Zen
 
When you cycle the oprod back and forth do you hear any grating sounds?
Like the sound of the spring rubbing?
There's a fix for that , part of routine NM guide rod install.
I've spoken on the subject before and posted pics of where to address the guide rod for optimal fit.
Not saying that is the problem but could contribute to it if it is at all binding and slowing the oprod travel
 
45ACPKING said:
When you cycle the oprod back and forth do you hear any grating sounds? Like the sound of the spring rubbing?
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I don't think so. This rifle makes a lot of grinding noise but I don't think I hear the spring. I'll zap the new guide rod with white grease just in case.

There's a fix for that , part of routine NM guide rod install.
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I'll see if I can find that fix/post.

I've spoken on the subject before and posted pics of where to address the guide rod for optimal fit. Not saying that is the problem but could contribute to it if it is at all binding and slowing the oprod travel
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Never hurts to look or tweak. I'll check it out and update after I next range test.


Shot about 50 rounds yesterday afternoon. Rifles now had about 80 rounds through it. The double dose of grease along with cleaning and very light touch of oil on the feed-ramp helped for the first mag but by the second mag it needed manual assistance to either pickup the round and chamber or just close the chamber fully. It shoots well and I was hitting paper with groups from 3/4" up to 1 1/2" with surplus ammo from a less than stable platform. Had to re-zero after taking it all apart a few times.

A few times the bolt wouldn't pick up the next round and slipped over it only to lightly jam where the bolt squished the case behind the bullet and the tip of the bullet was on the feed ramp. I noticed last time that the channel cut through the feed-ramps had some burs where the bullet tips ripped through.

As it was still far better than the first 30 rounds I'm hoping continued use will improve the action along with any tips or fixes I find. Now I need to find more reasonably priced surplus ammo as I'm using more than I expected. :)
 
I also found that the oprod had moved back to off-center. I've hopefully corrected this by jamming some steel wool under the ring before reassembling. Now waiting for a rain free day to retest.
 
Zen_Seeker said:
I also found that the oprod had moved back to off-center. I've hopefully corrected this by jamming some steel wool under the ring before reassembling. Now waiting for a rain free day to retest.
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You may have a barrel indexing issue if its off center again .

To tighten op rod guide.
Remove the drift pin and slide your op rod guide forward then use a center punch and peen the barrel where the op rod sits.
Apply some red Loctite and put the op rod guide back into position..you may have to tap it into alignment.

 
Zen_Seeker said:
Hi!

Thought I'd ask the group if my problem was a known issue or one unique to my rifle. I have a Norinco M305 that seems okay with soft point ammo but FMJ points seem to dig into the feed-ramp and stop the action. When I looked closer I noticed that the tips of the SP and FMJ rounds I cycled through the action come out marred. The last one or two rounds feeding and looking best. I've tried the two stock magazines as well as two new ones I bought with the same results.

I think I could use a round file to smooth out the feed-ramp and stop the issue. It only seems to happen on the right side. Would this be a problem or cause other issues? I don't want to use a grease or oil that might get on the bullet head and risk some getting in the barrel.

TIA, Zen
Click to expand...

You need to clean your rifle in a DISHWASHER ! ;)
 
chalkriver said:
You may have a barrel indexing issue if its off center again.
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Indexing is fine, checked by TacticalTeacher a few weeks back.

chalkriver said:
Remove the drift pin and slide your op rod guide forward then use a center punch and peen the barrel where the op rod sits.
Click to expand...
I did do this, twice, but it still moved back into it's old position after firing 30 rounds. (Not sure when it moved.)

chalkriver said:
Apply some red Loctite and put the op rod guide back into position..you may have to tap it into alignment.
Click to expand...
I've used steel wool to shim it a bit but if that fails I'll try the locktite. I'll still use the steel wool so it has something to bite into.

I'm pretty sure if it stays in place and I fire a few hundred rounds it will break it in better and smooth things out. As it seems to work better with the magazines almost empty I'm hoping things are just stiff.
 
Looks like locktite will be needed. Oprod ring moved again while testing with another 45 rounds. Had to push the rod forward manually a quarter of the time to fully close. Another quarter of the time the rod would be stuck near the back of the magazine. All issues resolved by manually cycling the action. I was only able to test at 60m yesterday but its shooting nice groups. (Scoped, iron sights didn't work properly and my eyes are getting old it seems.)

Had a blast using the MR1 with Chinese brass surplus. After 90 rounds in Boewulf mags it was doing well enough to take out ground hogs but to sloppy for anything serious.

On the way into the woods we saw a grouse and on the way out we almost hit a turkey! It shot onto the road like it was trying to commit suicide. I don't hunt for them but I was glad to see one. It's been years since I saw them in the wild. Grouse on the other hand always seem to be around in the fall if you're near a river.

Anyway, back to tweaking the M305. Now where's my hammer and blue locktite?
 
45ACPKING said:
When you cycle the oprod back and forth do you hear any grating sounds?
Like the sound of the spring rubbing?
There's a fix for that , part of routine NM guide rod install.
I've spoken on the subject before and posted pics of where to address the guide rod for optimal fit.
Not saying that is the problem but could contribute to it if it is at all binding and slowing the oprod travel
Click to expand...

Got a link to that modification? I haven't heard of anything to do with that yet, unless it's just the peening of the barrel under the op rod guide. but it sounds to me like this is something more than that? maybe a bevel on the oprod where the spring goes into the oprod?

hmmmmm.... *sits here waiting with a sick grin and files in both hands*
 
Zen... Tightening up your 305 will always improve it but I don't think it will solve the feed problem. I had the same issue with feeding or rather the previous owner did and he spent a tonne of money on indexing the barrel and on a new aftermarket stock. He still couldn't get it to work properly and sold it to me for $400. Instead of playing with the feed ramp (because it is chromed lined) or the op rod, I simply pinched the front lips of my magazines a little so the bullet has a more direct path. The rifle is not perfect but fun to work on and it now feeds, even with my Lander AIA 10 round magazines. Give that a try. Update us on your progress. Good luck.
 
Zen_Seeker said:
That's all that was done, twice. It just doesn't stay put. Hoping the locktite will make it stay but I might need to shim with more than steel wool.
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Yea, but you should not need steel wool under it, imo. I mean, I don't have a ton of experience, but on Sunday Barney didn't say anything about using more than penning or knurling and maybe Loctite ....
How hard are you hitting the center punch, and how many punches are you doing?

On my old Chinese barrel I did about one punch every half hour around the clock (like if you looked at it from the muzzle, down the barrel, the center punch would be the hour hand, I did it at every half hour). Then I did that in three rows, so there was a total of 24 punches, in the middle of the space where the guide goes, then 24 more on the forward end of that space, then 24 more on the rearward part of the space. Total of 72 punches I'd say. I didn't hit soft but also not hard enough to damage things. I'd call it a firm rap.

Are you maybe going too soft? Your guide should be tight enough that you need to use a brass punch or a piece of wood to hammer it on
 
Garaldtao said:
I simply pinched the front lips of my magazines
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Pinched them how? Not sure what you mean but don't mind trying.

Some times the bolt stops at the back end just as it grabs a round. Other times it stops just before it completely closes, maybe 1/2". Once in a while it slides over the top of a round and jams just behind where the bullet is crimped in the case. (Think this only happens on the A1A mags due to no hole in the front of the magazine.) It works fine about 25% to 30% of the time. It seems to work best when only a few rounds remain in the magazine or when I use the short 5 round OEM magazine...which I hate as it's a pain to remove with the scope mount installed.

Does anyone know if it's possible that the Archangel stock is to tight on the trigger group or chamber area and that is adding to the issue? I filed the sides of the stock lightly as it's supposed to be a bit tight and work itself in with firing but I might not have done enough.

I'm planning on bringing the old stock with me next test outing and switch it back along with the guide rod. If that doesn't work it only leaves the ammo...
 
krprice84 said:
Barney didn't say anything about using more than penning or knurling and maybe Loctite .... How hard are you hitting the center punch, and how many punches are you doing?
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First time was at Barney's and we thought it was good to go. Second time I added about a dozen more. I have a wooden work bench with a wood vise and scrap hard wood stock I use to remove and brace the barrel when I work on it. I'm using a steel punch and small mallet making good size holes. I have to bash it in place using the scrap wood and even knock the pin back in from the side that helps keep things in place. I'll use some brake cleaner on it after I remove the ring again just in case some grease slipped in.

As it shoots well up to 100m so far it's just frustrating to take it all a part only to have to re-sight the scope every trip. I don't leave the mount on when I work on the barrel so I lose zero. It's usually still on paper at 50m and always near center at 25m. I'll locktite the mount once I resolve this and don't need to remove it again.

At least the new stock is getting a good work out. Removing the parts and putting them back together is getting pretty easy.
 
Well, first off, you actually don't want to "give the stock a workout" - you want it to be really tight/snugly fitting. Springfield actually recommends you don't disassemble the action from the stock on their national match/super match rifles, because you wear out the bedding. Having said that, in an archangel stock, I'm sure it's not as big of a deal.

If you've already seen Barney about this, then I've got no clue from here. Maybe the inside surface of the oprod guide isn't smooth/flat, and it's causing it to move?

My first suggestion is to find yourself a USGI oprod guide, and use that instead. that way you know you have a part that's made right. If it doesn't work then, and still moves around, then my next move would be to replace the barrel and be done with it. I know that's probably not the "best solution", and there's probably a better one, but my feeling with the chinese parts is, they either work or they don't. I've heard stories from the pro's about guys screwing around with chinese parts forever trying to get it to work right, and if they don't work/fit right, then they just won't. That's one of the big reasons why I changed everything on my gun to USGI or USGI-spec stuff... no screwing around (and my d*ck hasn't fallen off either ;))
 
krprice84 said:
Well, first off, you actually don't want to "give the stock a workout" - you want it to be really tight/snugly fitting. Springfield actually recommends you don't disassemble the action from the stock on their national match/super match rifles, because you wear out the bedding. Having said that, in an archangel stock, I'm sure it's not as big of a deal.
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That's why I'm hesitant on modding my M1a, its a Loaded with the SS Medium barrel.
 
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