45-70 bullet making

phishroy

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Location
Durham region
not cast bullet but none the less these are self made.
took about 3 years to get all the tooling and finally the first batch is made.
these are 458 diam' 405 grain flat point.

it is a fun learning curve if you dont mind challenges.
lots of math note taking and documentation involved in order to get repeatable results.








 
Fantastic! These are the best looking and the most consistent custom copper jackets I have ever seen! Maybe you could post a step by step illustration of the process describing how you put them together?
 
learning and taking it really slow at each step, double and triple checking and writing down measurements on each step.
once i collect enough data i can mix and match data to create a bullet to my liking.

cost.... yes . it is not cheap, i had to hold off on several purchases and didnt buy any guns or gun related equipment for several years. there is allot of tooling involved, much more than i thought and each tool is custom made with extremely tight tolerances.
i did not buy everything in one go and it would not be possible to as well since the dies are custom made there is usually a waiting list of months if not years, depending on the part.
so this gave me time to save up and do more research.
i ordered the dies from RCE LLC and some of the none precision stuff such as core mold and lead extruder i made myself or had it made by a machine shop.

I will try to take pictures of the steps next time i run another batch.

there are also several utube videos around that show the process. some pertinacity good ones made by ammosmith.
 
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here are pictures of the tools.
these tools will make 458 bullets in almost any weight and length but will only make 458.
there are some more basic setups and tools that will do 2 steps in one but the compromise is the limitation in versatility.
i know that the tools look pretty much the same but each one of the punches and dies is unique and is for a specific step or use for a bullet design.
the press is a walnut hill press that is extremely robust and can also be used for reloading.
it takes 1.5x12 dies and has an adapter to take 7/8 x14
i had it mounted in a 45 degree angle to take full advantage of the long lever stroke and cam over.





 
turning this into a business would be pointless since all steps are done manually and each bullet is checked During each step of the process so it is very time consuming.
I may consider selling some here and there on request just to cover some of the materiel costs but that would be it.
 
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Very well done...I'm in awe to the nth degree...now, since you've got the brass extrusion thing down, making your own 45-70 brass should be the next step. LOL.

LOL. Extruding pure lead and thin copper is one thing but extruding brass disc to form a cartridge will require a significant amount of force and presure.... Hemmmm. Who knows....... wheels never stop turning..LOL
 
Norland ... well main reason for not getting up to the range is because my table saw accident at the beginning of the year but im slowly getting back into it, was up for the past 2 weeks starting from zero with a 22.
the bullet making is actually beneficial to my finger physiotherapy , retraining my finger dexterity.
i don't want to turn this to a buy and sell thread so i have posted bullets that have a solid repeatable design for on the EE in the reloading equipment section.
i pretty much have the 405 grain model bullet down pat also some heavy hitters such as 465 grain flat point and 485 grain soft nose.
next i plan on designing some exposed lead hollow point bullets but not sure when i will get to it.
sawzal, yes i love that Ultimate cannelure tool. do you use one yourself? im trying to decide when placing the bullet in the tool which way is best to place the base of the bullet against.there are small round discs at each end, one is made out of hard plastic and the other is made out of aluminum. im assuming the plastic end is to support the meplat which doesn't apply for big flat nosed bullets.
 
phishroy, I am trying to understand the process on the high level - i.e. what do you do first, second and third (using what tools). It would be great if you described this in terms of 1, 2, 3, etc.
 
phishroy, I am trying to understand the process on the high level - i.e. what do you do first, second and third (using what tools). It would be great if you described this in terms of 1, 2, 3, etc.

sure.
ill try to explain the steps.
the steps can vary depending on the bullet made and tools used, ie flat base Vs boat tail or partition bullet Vs single core etc'.
i will explain a rough outline of the steps i take to create a single core flat base lead flat point bullet.
with jacketed bullets detail is important in every step, sure makes me have allot of respect for the guys at sierra Speer and other bullet manufacturers.
once you have the measurements for each step in the process in order to be able to duplicate that design die setup is critical.
ok... enough blabering...
here is the low down...
- first step determine jacket dimensions for bullet design, draw the jacket to correct diameter using a draw die which will be under 458, more closer to 450 at this point to start with.
- second step calculate desired finished jacket length after reaching 458 diameter (remember the diam' at this stage is still 450), flare the excess determined length with a flare punch and use a pinch trim die to remove the excess jacket length material. weigh the trimmed jacket, you will need this measurement for later.
- calculate the lead core needed in order to achieve final bullet weight, there is a formula to calculate lead wire diameter by length equals weight of lead.
forget about using wheal weights , scrap lead or range lead. the lead has to be at least 99% pure lead.
pure lead is consistent in weight and is soft enough to be squeezed easily without over pressuring the dies and breaking them.
the determined length of the lead core should correlate with the finished length of the finished jacket. too little lead and the nose of the jacket will buckle on itself at the end, lead core to long and you will end up with too much lead exposed or a half jacketed bullet.
cast some lead cores using an undersized core mold.
i made a simple core mold by drilling in between 2 halves of aluminum blocks 10 x 4x3/4 made 9 holes using a drill press each cavity is about 3.75 inches deep and 0.350 diameter. so each time a pop the mold i get 9 bits of pure lead wire about 3.75 inches long and 0.350 diameter.
- i cut the lead wire just a bit over my calculated length using a bench top sheet metal/ wire cutter that i got from busy bee tools and i created a length stop for it to make the process go faster.
so now i have a bunch of lead cores that are just a bit overweight.

i lubricate the lead cores using a very small amount of lanolin and i put each core in the core swage die.
i set the core swage die in the press to produce my calculated core end weight.
perfect die set up is important at this step or you will get a different weight bullet at the end.
this die will squish the lead and will expand it from 0.350 to 0.3955 and there is a bleed hole so any excess lead will squirt out the bleed hole. end results is a perfect cylindrical core in the desired calculated weight.
- next step is to remove any lubricant from the cores by rinsing them in alcohol or any substance that would remove the lube and dry fast. mineral spirits works well too.
after cores are cleaned they should be a drop fit into the jacket.
place sized and cleaned cores in jackets.
- place core seating dies and punches in the press and adjust for core seating.
apply a tiny amount of lube on the jackets.
run the jackets with the cores in the core seating die. this step will seat the core in the jacket properly.
it will expand the core against the jacket and will cause the jacket to widen up against the body of the die which is 455.
so after this stage you should have a straight walled copper tube with a lead core adhered with pressure to the copper which is expanded almost to the final diameter.
- next step is point forming. set up the point forming die in the press according to your calculated measurements and depth.
wipe a tiny amount of lube on the jacket ends (ogive) run the bullet in the point forming die.
this will squish and form the tip of the bullet and cause the lead to flow forward so if you did you math right you will end up with the lead moved forward to your calculated area on the bullet, in case of a lead nose it will flow forward beyond the length of the copper jacket, knowing the flat end of the bullet tip has a 0.205 meplat.
this die will also bring the bullet to the final diameter of 458
if you messed up you may end up with a copper tip and the lead is below the point of the bullet, well, depending what you are trying to achieve.
final step i take is placing a canulare at the calculated distance on the bullet so it can be seated and crimped to fit in a tubular magazine and clean any possible remaining lubricant off the bullet.
ok, so this is a rough explanation of the steps, there are small nuances such as the amount of pressure used to achieve cam over in each step etc' etc but this should give you a rough idea of the steps.



side note about jackets.... there are several options for jacket material. most common is using 22lr brass for making 6mm bullets and 224 bullets, i have also played around and made 458 bullets out of spent annealed 40 S&W brass. almost any caliber jacket can be made using used brass. seen guys make 30 cal bullets out of 50 bmg used primers and 338 jackets made out of 223 brass.
also can use specific copper tubing 0.035 wall thickens for making thick walled bullets which make great hunting rounds.
 
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i think ammosmith explains it much better than i do, he made a video series about it.
these are just the first 2 of 9 videos he created about the swaging process.
 
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