Entering the precision rifle realm

Shooter ----/ said:
Using the 215 hybrid, 2620fps using Winchester brass. I expect next year using Lapua brass will see even higher speeds.
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The 215 hybrid is not in my program, but the Berger 210 @2620 is almost up with a .260/139 Scenar @ 2850. 6.6 minutes with 10mph crosswind vs 6.0. Good that a .308 get close to a .260 at long range.
 
I tried the 215s this year in Ottawa but the 185 jugs were much much better. Everyone was using them. There's not even a close second place bullet for a 308.

Ya... ya.... ya
I've been hearing claims of great success with the 215 heavies from a 308 for years, but among competitive shooters - never seen anyone actually do well with them.

If there is someone out there with something that works with a 215 in 308 he sleeps with BigFoot.

If you are the gambling type, hey go for it, but this thread is for a beginner who needs a no BS easy to rig outfit that will get him up to speed with no tricks. The Berg 185 jug is that no BS base line starting point solution. After that is up and running go ahead and experiment with pipe dreams.
 
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The 185gr. bullet is the best place to start and maybe finish for most folks, imo

But the heavies do work..John Pierce won the Easterns shooting 215s..Brian Litz has won matches with them and claims they hold 1/3 moa elevation at 1000yds.

James Crofts uses 200s and has won many big matches..

If you can get the heavies to work there is an advantage..

But for starting out...185s..learn to shoot your rifle and read the wind..

Just my 2 cents..
 
mchaley said:
Also, that rifle is about $1300. The model 10TR is about $700. I figure $700 for the rifle, $700 for glass, $100 for a brake, $100ish for rings and I'm good to go. I realize I won't be using walmart ammo. That said, inside 300 yards should be fine for it. I'll use match grade down the road. For all I know this will lead to reloading ammo.

It's funny that so many people like Savage yet there are SO many remmy 700's out there.
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Lots of great info but I think things are getting ahead of what you have in mind and your budget..... The Savage 10TR will do just fine as an entry level shooter and will give you plenty of options to change/upgrade in the future. I would bed the action and stock for sure. Get it done properly... it matters.

From there, do add a muzzle brake. Any gill style with large side ports will do.. DLASK makes a nice unit for a fair price. Don't get hung up on all sorts of tech... they do the same thing and are noisy. Recoil is not your friend.

The included base is just fine. I would suggest Burris Sig ZEE rings to set up the scope... but there are plenty of other rings that will do the job. Don't get the cheapest as they are likely going to wear and loose scopes will drive you nuts. If you find you are shooting alot, consider a steel rail for piece of mind... .but that is down the road.

For optics, Sightron SIIB or SIII. It will be above your budget but these are scopes you will keep and use and want to use. I lean towards the LRMOA reticle for its ease of aiming and utility. Scopes with poor optics and mechanicals will make learning and shooting LR a less then enjoyable experience.

You may need an adjustable comb to be added. If shooting prone, you may find a taller mounted scope more comfy. I can offer Tacpro. Simple to install and works.

You will need to reload. LR precision shooting really needs properly tuned ammo that suits your barrel. I compete with Berger but you certainly don't need to spend that much at this time... Hrn and Sierra make wonderful bullets that will easily make the trip to 1000yds. Can help with the set up of all of this.

Given what you are asking and where you are, all the competition stuff is great but may not be what you want to spend or need. Does it work, of course but...$$$$

Anyways, you need to walk before you run. Spend more money on optics and reloading... this is what will give the highest return on your investment.

YMMV.

Jerry
 
Just playing with the program...
All 10mph wind @1000m.
.308 (.308W) 185gr Berger @2750, 7.9" drift.
.308 (.308W) 155 Scenar @ 2950, 8.2".
.264 (.260R) 139 Scenar @2850, 6.7".
The Scenar velocities are ones observed from my rifles.
 
The gap between FTR and Open has closed dramatically over the last few years. Why you see scores of FTR equal or better then Open depending on the relay and match.

mag fed 308's haven't really changed much in the peak performance.

Single fed, long throated heavy bullet slinging 308s have.

Jerry
 
tiriaq said:
How is a Savage waaaay safer than a 700?
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Take the bolt out of both actions and examine them closely. Consider what will happen when the side wall of a case is ruptured when fired and where the gas will vent.

The Remmy has a hole on the left side of the action that is intended to vent gas, but there is nothing to actually stop the rearward flow of gas - which is actually the path of least resistance. Once the pressure gets to the back of the action, that venting gas is not blocked by the back of the bolt. The result is a blast of powder in the shooters face and left eye. I've been there to see it happen and took the guy to the hospital myself.

Savage is quite clearly aware of this and designed the action to address this problem. There is what looks like a rotating bolt lug behind the locking bolt lug. That rotating lug is actually there to block the left lug way. By blocking the lug way, pressure is forced out the vent hole and the rearward flow of gas is restricted. Any pressure that does make it to the back of the receiver is terminated by the flatness of the back of the bolt. It has no openings that allow the rearward flow of gas. Savage had done a good job of addressing this issue.

There are other advantages to the Savage rifles over many other rifle brands - not to pick on Remmington. The barrels have no shoulder. Instead they have a lock nut. This allows you to order barrels that do not need to be head spaced to your gun. You just tighten the lock nut at the correct head space. You can swap factory barrels to change calibers in a few minutes if you want. You can always have a custom barrel cut with a shoulder if you don't trust the lock nut concept.

I was never a Savage fan but for years kept hearing stories of great accuracy from them and I never believed it. Well I believe it now. They make a darn good rifle for the money.

The cheapest rifle is the one you only buy once.

Start from a good solid foundation and you'll get good value from upgrades.

Waist upgrades on a fundamentally flawed action and you're just trying to look cool with no payoff. That's a discouraging proposition.
 
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I have closely examined a 700 which experienced a catastrophic casehead failure. The rifle, a brand new .22-250 Varmint was fired with a steel rod in the barrel. The bullet stopped in the barrel. The boltnose was cracked from expanding against the barrel breech counterbore. The brass casehead was fused to the boltnose counterbore. The stock was undamaged. The shooter was untouched, unharmed. No fragments, no smudging. The flange on the front of the 700 bolt plug deflects any gas getting back through the lugways - although that is not the primary escape route. The Savage does have the gas baffles. It also has a flat boltface which is close to, but not touching a flat barrel face. The space around the bolthead inside the receiver ring is wide open. The Savage is a competent design, but the 700's breeching makes it the best commercial design to be using if there is a catastrophic case head failure. The Savage is simply not waaaay better than the 700.
 
Savage is a great value for the money. Most of the time, with my experience, they out shoot a stock Remington out of the box. If you're set on .308 you might want to find a used rifle and use the extra funds to get into reloading.

Reloading will really enhance accuracy on any rifle.

Good glass goes a long way as well. I leaned the "buy once, cry once" is the best way to go for the long run. However, not sure what your budget is. Buying used is a great way to get into the "long range game" for less money than you think.

Good luck!
 
BadAsMo said:
I tried the 215s this year in Ottawa but the 185 jugs were much much better. Everyone was using them. There's not even a close second place bullet for a 308.

Ya... ya.... ya
I've been hearing claims of great success with the 215 heavies from a 308 for years, but among competitive shooters - never seen anyone actually do well with them.

If there is someone out there with something that works with a 215 in 308 he sleeps with BigFoot.

If you are the gambling type, hey go for it, but this thread is for a beginner who needs a no BS easy to rig outfit that will get him up to speed with no tricks. The Berg 185 jug is that no BS base line starting point solution. After that is up and running go ahead and experiment with pipe dreams.
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Well then I must be the exception to your rule.
 
BadAsMo said:
I don't know the velocity, but I was up 30.5 minutes at 1000 yards from my 100 yard zero. In case you're wondering - that's really flat for a 308.
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Well, your numbers don't look too special seeing as my 215s required just a shade under 30moa at the 1000 yard mark. I had 30 on and was holding low.
 
Gunneegoogoo said:
What do those if you with lots of experience expect for life from a .308 barrel??

-J.
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That will provide tons of vague responses... I can only offer this...

BR < FTR < Tactical LR/PRS < LR hunting < general plinking. You really need to decide the accuracy level you need before bore life can be discussed.

308's do not last all that long when you need to hit a 5" circle at 1000yds. Make that a 10" gong at 300yds and you will likely tire of the rifle before it dies.

Jerry
 
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