Please stop posting your hunting videos.

[XSlor]

Not really my place to say what everyone "thinks", but saying everyone wounds game often, is painting with a big brush. Why do you suppose you wound so much game?

I don't know... I'm not a hunter or a fisherman... but I've seen first hand animals getting wounded... I've seen first hand the fish getting smashed repeatedly in the head... I've never heard a hunter tell me he has a perfect record instakill history... tracking your prey after you shoot it is a skill for a reason... because it happens often. I went duck hunting once... out of the 30 ducks... maybe half were dead when we picked them up... the other half were "suffering" and I had to decapitate them... it haunts me personally and why I have had doubts about shooting "bambi", but I worked for my meat, they lived a good life it seems, and I fed my family. It's just how it goes... why hide the hard work that goes into hunting? I appreciate those that kill the animals I eat. Even if I don't agree with how some of the animals are treated... I like meat... I either need to man up and go kill my own meat, or have someone else do it for me...

I can only imagine that those that are constantly butchering and executing animals are completely desensitized to it... yet we hide them and when they do come up, we call them monsters for doing the job no one else wants to do...

 

[Aries-]

They do on HBO/Netflix and you don't have to look too hard to find that... furthermore, what about all the acts of war and against other humans that are shown? Ever spend an hour on liveleak? Hunting if anything needs more air-time. People need to be educated in the fact that animals don't just instantly turn into burger meat... There's a process, and sometimes things don't go as planned. Also note that our "media" is pretty weak. We censor so much... we live in this little bubble of fairy tales... did everyone believe before the internet that animals instantly died after getting shot? that EVERY SINGLE KILL was a good clean kill? Open your eyes people! This isn't lala land... it's our right to see what's going on... if we don't want to see things and want to continue living in lala land, then, as buddy mentioned, maybe you should stay off the internet and cancel your tv subscription...

And the fact that everyone knows what's going on and we just want to sweep it under the rug... "yeah, we get it, sometimes animals suffer... but let's hide that because people might get offended"... "let's not show the truth about ______"... is that the kind of world you want to live in? I don't want my children growing up thinking it's all peaches and daisies...

When I taught my kids about the consequences of not looking both ways when crossing the street... I showed them videos on the internet about kids getting hit by a car. Cause that's real. When I wanted to teach my kids about poverty, I showed the real videos of impoverished children around the world. I hope to teach my kids first hand about hunting, but I have showed them how some companies treat animals and how despicable it is.

Really? We must not watch the same netflix. I dont remember anything actualy showing ### ### in detail. Depicting yes, but not showing actual. There is a difference between showing 2 guys grinding back to front, and showing an erect ##### going in.

Just like there is a difference between showing someone shoot and then to a deer falling down, thats a depiction of hunting, showing from the hunters POV and watching the smoke and then the deers leg get blown off or the stomach split open on the ground is completely different. And it dissapoints me that there are so many that try to use strawman arguments and non sequitur's to justify showing a disgusting hunting shot.

 

[XSlor]

Really? We must not watch the same netflix. I dont remember anything actualy showing ### ### in detail. Depicting yes, but not showing actual. There is a difference between showing 2 guys grinding back to front, and showing an erect ##### going in.

Just like there is a difference between showing someone shoot and then to a deer falling down, thats a depiction of hunting, showing from the hunters POV and watching the smoke and then the deers leg get blown off or the stomach split open on the ground is completely different. And it dissapoints me that there are so many that try to use strawman arguments and non sequitur's to justify showing a disgusting hunting shot.

You're right... it's not detailed enough. Maybe in 30 years it will be acceptable and incredibly detailed... and it will be everywhere... just like the hunting videos... and people will be offended.

Furthermore, by your logic, we should ban all the videos that show the slaughter of farm animals... in fact, they've done that in parts of the USA! They've made it an OFFENSE to go into these farms and film footage of the animal torture that happens behind closed doors...

 

[Ar180shooter]

Lot of people are incredibly offended by homosexuality... more so than hunting actually... by your logic...

Seriously? That's the best that you can do?

Do you know what a Red Herring Fallacy is?

 

[XSlor]

Seriously? That's the best that you can do?

Do you know what a Red Herring Fallacy is?

Hey! If you think that's what I'm doing, that's fine by me... I'm just expressing my 2cents on the interwebz like everyone else... you can disagree with me till you're blue in the face... but as far as I can see, neither of us is changing anyone's opinion...

 

[Ar180shooter]

Hey! If you think that's what I'm doing, that's fine by me... I'm just expressing my 2cents on the interwebz like everyone else... you can disagree with me till you're blue in the face... but as far as I can see, neither of us is changing anyone's opinion...

A red herring is an informal relevance fallacy. While the point you made about homosexuality being offensive to some may, on the surface, seem relevant, it is ultimately a different and completely unrelated subject, with no bearing on the discussion at hand.

We are not advocating that good hunting videos of people making humane and ethical kills should not be posted, quite the opposite in fact. What we are saying is that people should not be posting videos of poor shots being made, that show the animal in unnecessary stress and duress, and especially videos showing wanton cruelty and callousness towards the animals. It does nothing to advocate hunting as a sport, and will turn public opinion against us. If you cannot understand this, then you are definitely not someone that should be advocating for hunters.

 

[XSlor]

A red herring is an informal relevance fallacy. While the point you made about homosexuality being offensive to some may, on the surface, seem relevant, it is ultimately a different and completely unrelated subject, with no bearing on the discussion at hand.

We are not advocating that good hunting videos of people making humane and ethical kills should not be posted, quite the opposite in fact. What we are saying is that people should not be posting videos of poor shots being made, that show the animal in unnecessary stress and duress, and especially videos showing wanton cruelty and callousness towards the animals. It does nothing to advocate hunting as a sport, and will turn public opinion against us. If you cannot understand this, then you are definitely not someone that should be advocating for hunters.

Thanks for that explanation... I didn't know what it meant /s

Ok, cool. Your point of view is just that - your point of view.

Since apparently my form of expression is out there and irrelevant... than maybe I should express myself in a more black and white form:

My point of view is put it all out there... if it's something that turns my stomach... guess what? I won't watch it! I'm sure though that everyone posting their super unethical shots have seen OP's post and yours and moving forward they will stop posting their bad kills. The world is a better place now that we don't have to see animals suffer /s

I'm btw caught in the struggle of being a vegan and a meat eater... I've yet to be able to go 1 year as a vegan. I LOVE MEAT. I hate that animals have to die for it - either by my hands or someone else's... so it's not like I agree with animals being ripped apart... but it happens... why hide that?

 

[Ar180shooter]

Thanks for that explanation... I didn't know what it meant /s

Ok, cool. Your point of view is just that - your point of view.

Since apparently my form of expression is out there and irrelevant... than maybe I should express myself in a more black and white form:

My point of view is put it all out there... if it's something that turns my stomach... guess what? I won't watch it! I'm sure though that everyone posting their super unethical shots have seen OP's post and yours and moving forward they will stop posting their bad kills. The world is a better place now that we don't have to see animals suffer /s

I'm btw caught in the struggle of being a vegan and a meat eater... I LOVE MEAT. I hate that animals have to die for it - either by my hands or someone else's... so it's not like I agree with animals being ripped apart... but it happens... why hide that?

You seemed to have trouble not making logical fallacies in your arguments, so an explanation was necessary.

Additionally, you understand that this discussion isn't about whether it is ethical to take game or not, right?

It's about the social and political consequences of showing the worst side of hunting, and then defending it. As a community, we should work to advocate responsible hunting that does not cause unnecessary and excessive suffering towards the animal. I understand that it happens, but we ought to strive to reduce the number of occurrences, and when it does happen, we should certainly not brag about it by posting videos of it online. Some people will be offended by the idea of hunting. I don't care what those people think. Like hunters, they are a minority. What matters is the majority of the population that are uninformed or are fence sitters. They can be swayed either direction. They are who I care about. Is this really so difficult to understand?

 

[Aries-]

You're right... it's not detailed enough. Maybe in 30 years it will be acceptable and incredibly detailed... and it will be everywhere... just like the hunting videos... and people will be offended.

Furthermore, by your logic, we should ban all the videos that show the slaughter of farm animals... in fact, they've done that in parts of the USA! They've made it an OFFENSE to go into these farms and film footage of the animal torture that happens behind closed doors...

So do ypu think they would have gotten where they are by showing graphic anal on the 6:00news or on tv? #### no.

 

[XSlor]

You seemed to have trouble not making logical fallacies in your arguments, so an explanation was necessary.

Additionally, you understand that this discussion isn't about whether it is ethical to take game or not, right?

It's about the social and political consequences of showing the worst side of hunting, and then defending it. As a community, we should work to advocate responsible hunting that does not cause unnecessary and excessive suffering towards the animal. I understand that it happens, but we ought to strive to reduce the number of occurrences, and when it does happen, we should certainly not brag about it by posting videos of it online. Some people will be offended by the idea of hunting. I don't care what those people think. Like hunters, they are a minority. What matters is the majority of the population that are uninformed or are fence sitters. They can be swayed either direction. They are who I care about. Is this really so difficult to understand?

No - your point of view is very straight forward and I understand very well what you are saying and your stance is... but apparently, you're having a hard time understanding that I disagree with you lol... but who cares! because we ain't changing people's opinions!

I respect your opinion

So do ypu think they would have gotten where they are by showing graphic anal on the 6:00news or on tv? #### no.

Well, they've slowly been slipping it into everything right? And that's not just to do with homosexuality. Heterosexuality is just as big of an issue. Slowly becoming more acceptable? Just like hunting no? did they censor the bear getting shot on the "6 o'clock news"? might they have censored it once upon a time? maybe... maybe in 30 years they will censor the bear getting shot!

Once upon a time police use to measure bathing suites to make sure that it was "proper" attire! seems crazy don't it?!

Here some more food for thought - which is kind of scary. Our kids and our kid's kids and so on are going to be exposed to all sorts of crazy things... they will be so desensitized by simple exposure, that unethical hunting videos is going to be so far down the list of whogivesacrap.jpg that this subject will be completely irrelevant... oh wait... it kind of is already!

 

[Ar180shooter]

No - your point of view is very straight forward and I understand very well what you are saying and your stance is... but apparently, you're having a hard time understanding that I disagree with you lol... but who cares! because we ain't changing people's opinions!

I respect your opinion

I know you disagree with me. That much is clear.

What I'm looking for is a compelling reason why I should change my position on a subject. I have no problem changing my stance providing a valid argument can be leveled against mine. So far, all I've got is the "if you don't like it don't watch it" line, which carry's little weight with me. This is because it's not about me, but about all the other people out there.

So the question is, how do we best advocate for our sport? Do we show the best we have, clean kills, respect for the animals we're hunting, etc? Or do we show trashy hunters doing trashy things, and defend them at all costs?

I really want to know where you stand on this, and maybe then can we make some progress.

 

[Aries-]

No - your point of view is very straight forward and I understand very well what you are saying and your stance is... but apparently, you're having a hard time understanding that I disagree with you lol... but who cares! because we ain't changing people's opinions!

I respect your opinion



Well, they've slowly been slipping it into everything right? And that's not just to do with homosexuality. Heterosexuality is just as big of an issue. Slowly becoming more acceptable? Just like hunting no? did they censor the bear getting shot on the "6 o'clock news"? might they have censored it once upon a time? maybe... maybe in 30 years they will censor the bear getting shot!

Once upon a time police use to measure bathing suites to make sure that it was "proper" attire! seems crazy don't it?!

Here some more food for thought - which is kind of scary. Our kids and our kid's kids and so on are going to be exposed to all sorts of crazy things... they will be so desensitized by simple exposure, that unethical hunting videos is going to be so far down the list of whogivesacrap.jpg that this subject will be completely irrelevant... oh wait... it kind of is already!

You are a master of non sequitur's. The bear on the news wasnt gut shot, wasnt wounded and run off. It died.

And you didn't answer my question.

 

[XSlor]

I know you disagree with me. That much is clear.

What I'm looking for is a compelling reason why I should change my position on a subject. I have no problem changing my stance providing a valid argument can be leveled against mine. So far, all I've got is the "if you don't like it don't watch it" line, which carry's little weight with me. This is because it's not about me, but about all the other people out there.

So the question is, how do we best advocate for our sport? Do we show the best we have, clean kills, respect for the animals we're hunting, etc? Or do we show trashy hunters doing trashy things, and defend them at all costs?

I really want to know where you stand on this, and maybe then can we make some progress.

Well, as I said, I don't disagree with you completely...

However it's hunting. There's good times and bad times... why are we censoring that? There's people that rejoice over their kills, others weep... some respect animals and others don't... that's just the way life goes... I eat meat... sometimes a reminder that killing animals isn't the easiest thing to do is a good thing. And honestly, I don't see a lot of people making a big deal about it... that bear kill that was brought up was nothing more than shock value... someone found it and thought they could make a story about it... I don't really think anyone cared... a lot of the people in the comments defended the kill... as opposed to saying don't post those videos... maybe someone should take the time and post a intro to those videos explaining that this is what happens. Educate people. Don't just keep them in the dark. My friend who's a seasoned hunter like to bag a couple of bears a year and he says that the safest way to shoot a bear is to first shoot in the shoulder so it doesn't have the opportunity to charge you... then take a second shot to the vitals...

It's the same argument for guns... a lot of gun owners try to keep things hush hush... because it offends and scares people... and then the only thing that gets blasted around in the media is how bloody the corpse was after getting ripped up by automatic assault weapons! Well, maybe if someone took the time to educate everyone on the subject instead of trying to avoid it and just cringe when it makes the headlines, then we wouldn't have to have these moments of "hide your guns, hide your hunting videos, hide in the closet" (pun intended)

You are a master of non sequitur's. The bear on the news wasnt gut shot, wasnt wounded and run off. It died.

And you didn't answer my question.

You're the one comparing it to explicit anal ###... I was just making a point that it's pretty out there (and about as explicit as it's gonna get without crossing over into ####ography) and it wouldn't have been 30 years ago... and it's like that now, not because everyone stepped on egg shells, but because they paraded it everywhere! In China, people execute animals on the street and deep fry it right in front of you... and guess what... no one bats an eye... in fact, they'll probably have seconds on that deep fried terrier...

 

[stampede]

Furthermore, by your logic, we should ban all the videos that show the slaughter of farm animals... in fact, they've done that in parts of the USA! They've made it an OFFENSE to go into these farms and film footage of the animal torture that happens behind closed doors...

Ruining some peoples hobbies, no doubt.

 

[Aries-]

Well, as I said, I don't disagree with you completely...

However it's hunting. There's good times and bad times... why are we censoring that? There's people that rejoice over their kills, others weep... some respect animals and others don't... that's just the way life goes... I eat meat... sometimes a reminder that killing animals isn't the easiest thing to do is a good thing. And honestly, I don't see a lot of people making a big deal about it... that bear kill that was brought up was nothing more than shock value... someone found it and thought they could make a story about it... I don't really think anyone cared... a lot of the people in the comments defended the kill... as opposed to saying don't post those videos... maybe someone should take the time and post a intro to those videos explaining that this is what happens. Educate people. Don't just keep them in the dark. My friend who's a seasoned hunter like to bag a couple of bears a year and he says that the safest way to shoot a bear is to first shoot in the shoulder so it doesn't have the opportunity to charge you... then take a second shot to the vitals...

It's the same argument for guns... a lot of gun owners try to keep things hush hush... because it offends and scares people... and then the only thing that gets blasted around in the media is how bloody the corpse was after getting ripped up by automatic assault weapons! Well, maybe if someone took the time to educate everyone on the subject instead of trying to avoid it and just cringe when it makes the headlines, then we wouldn't have to have these moments of "hide your guns, hide your hunting videos, hide in the closet" (pun intended)



You're the one comparing it to explicit anal ###... I was just making a point that it's pretty out there (and about as explicit as it's gonna get without crossing over into ####ography) and it wouldn't have been 30 years ago... and it's like that now, not because everyone stepped on egg shells, but because they paraded it everywhere! In China, people execute animals on the street and deep fry it right in front of you... and guess what... no one bats an eye... in fact, they'll probably have seconds on that deep fried terrier...

And your comparison to ### ### is idiotic and has nothing to do with this argument. What they did was socialy acceptable for anyone else. There is no comparison to showing video's of a wounded animal. Thats not even generaly acceptable among hunters. It happens yes, but its not anything any of us are proud of.

 

[stampede]

"In China, people execute animals on the street and deep fry it right in front of you... and guess what... no one bats an eye... in fact, they'll probably have seconds on that deep fried terrier..."

That practice is being banned in China. precisely because people find it cruel and barbaric.

Give us another bad analogy.

 

[XSlor]

Give us another bad analogy.

How about all the videos on YouTube of "inhumane" kills? Are they banned? Is hunting banned? Is eating meat banned? Nothing like that is going to get banned... Regardless of bad press.... Canada needs hunters. Hunters funding is important... Is my understanding... Am I wrong?

Also can you please post a credible source on China banning the slaughter of animals on the streets for food? I did a bit a research and found nothing... That's interesting for sure! Cutting away at the food sources for a billion people is an interesting push for a country that is pretty unethical by our standards.

This is all I could find about China and dog meat... an online petition...

And your comparison to ### ### is idiotic and has nothing to do with this argument. What they did was socialy acceptable for anyone else. There is no comparison to showing video's of a wounded animal. Thats not even generaly acceptable among hunters. It happens yes, but its not anything any of us are proud of.

A) I didn't bring up ###... you did... I just brought up the struggle for same ### marriage/LGBT in the USA. That has been higher up in any politicians agenda over ethical animal killing...

B) Who cares if there's a video of a wounded animal or not??? Have you ever watched ANY nature show? Why is watching another animal slowly kill another animal fascinating to us, but when we put a bullet into one and it slowly dies, we're suddenly offended? Wounded animals happen... so what if it's documented? If YOU'RE offended by that... well... that's good I guess.. you're offended... but why tell others not to post a video of their hunt for others to see? Where do you draw the line? You can do this, you can't do that. You can't post a video unless the animal dies in 5 seconds.

I'm against censorship... if I don't want to watch something, I won't. Doesn't mean because it's out there that you have to agree with it. Just because you don't agree with how the media represents something, that we should ban it all! I don't agree with the pain that some animals suffer. But that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be documented. I don't agree with WW2, doesn't mean it shouldn't be documented. I don't agree with ISIS and how they murder humans. But I don't believe that it shouldn't be documented.

 

[Aries-]

This would be self sensorship to keep anti's from using disgusting video's against us. We have already lost the spring bearhunt in ontario, and are being over run by bears clearly it wasnt because of the lack of population. We are losing moose seasons here. So are we working towards losing seasons on deer?

 

[XSlor]

This would be self sensorship to keep anti's from using disgusting video's against us. We have already lost the spring bearhunt in ontario, and are being over run by bears clearly it wasnt because of the lack of population. We are losing moose seasons here. So are we working towards losing seasons on deer?

OK! Now that's a valid piece of information that I wasn't aware of! Give me the details... why did you loose bear and moose hunting in Ontario? Obviously if Ontario is being over run by bears, next season is going to be generous for the hunters, right?

 

[Aries-]

No. Spring bear hunt was removed. Moose season has been hacked back stating that the moose population is dwindling.

Apparently the spring bear hunt was back in certain places. Mainly because of cottagers houses being damaged by bear. And it was far from generous.