SVT-40 range report, sort of...

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Rayleigh_Scattering

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Yesterday I took the new (to me) SVT-40 out to the range to try to figure out whether to take it or the 1922 SMLE with me for this fall's walks in the woods.

For reference, in 7.62 I am firing 150gr .311 dia SPFT over 32gr of H4895.

In .303 I am firing 174gr .310 dia fmj over 29gr of H4895.

Both are within Hogdon's upper/lower limits for H4895 (via the 60% tech note).

Iron sights both.

My goal was to see which I could point more comfortably, which I could get a better aim with, and whatever else I could learn.

After tuning the gas port (1.3 works nicely, but 1.2 wasn't reliable), and the obligatory first-time-shooting-a-semi-automatic mag dump (which ended after 3 rounds because I couldn't control the muzzle rise), I started alternating the two rifles 5rds/each on a group of cardboard boxes I had brought to aim at.

Now please understand the following is my impression/opinion. I welcome other people's views.

Overall I found I had an easier time sighting the SMLE, and was more readily able to control the trigger break. That may be a factor of experience.

The semi-auto function is nice, and for something at close range makes the second shot as quick as you want it to be. I'm still looking at 4-5 seconds between aimed shots for anything at distance just to get my sight picture back and stage a smooth trigger transition.

The feel of the bolt coming back at me was unnerving. That may be a question of familiarity.

It threw casings in a randomly-forwardish direction, and not too far (5'-10'). A higher gas setting would have thrown them further I expect. Bolt damage to the brass is insignificant (just a small ding). Since I don't load anywhere near max (actually, even below starting) a bit less case volume is irrelevant.

This thing is FILTHY! The casings, which started off shiny, came out sooty and streaked and couldn't be readily distinguished from the carpet of old laquered steel 7.62x39 casings covering the place. I hunted around extensively, but only found 3/4 of the casings. The bolt and magazine same; black soot everywhere. This is understandable given that the bolt is unlocked while the barrel is still under pressure, but it takes the required cleaning into a whole new league.

When I asked, the young lady at the table next to me did not find the noise particularly unpleasant.

Recoil was not bothersome in either rifle although the SMLE was smoother (It's original config, so it has plenty of mass to broaden the impulse). I loaded them light, and neither is a 5lb rifle. With a 00 ball over a few grains of shotgun powder (my favorite), recoil was non-existent.

Accuracy, when all was said and done was good. I think I actually grouped better with the SVT-40, but both were serviceable, and neither one was much worse than my own laser-pointer-on-a-stick basic ability to point things.

Note to users: Do not pick up the 7.62 brass until it has time to cool. The chamber dwell time is much longer on the bolt action, and the brass cools to the barrel by the time you get it out. No so for the semi. -tssss- YOW!

I don't like the safety on the SVT-40. For the SMLE the safety locks the bolt, locks the firing pin, and locks the trigger. Since it is a ####-on-close you can also just chamber a round with the trigger held down, and not charge the firing pin spring until you want to (clik-click). Or, for the ultimate in safety, you can just chamber a round quietly when the time comes. Not so for the SVT; the safety only physically blocks trigger motion, and chambering anything without a low-budget-action-movie "CLA-SHLINK" sound is difficult.

So, the end result.

I like the SVT-40's looks, and it is mechanically neat to play with, but for what I'm going to be doing I just don't see it has any advantage over the SMLE I am already familiar with.

If I was in a situation where the follow-on shot could matter, I'd got with the semi-auto (and the SVT-40 is nice for a semi-auto).

But if I'm going our for deer with friends, I'll go with the old(er) beast.

I invite y'alls to share your own experiences in these regards.

Ulrich
 
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Thanks for posting your comparision of the SVT 40 and 1922 SMLE. I have been meaning to add a Lee-Enfield to my collection.
It sounds as if you were fortunate in getting an SVT 40 that is very reliable and gives you no problems. I love the way my SVT looks,
shoots, handles and it is one of my favorite guns - BUT - I don't think I would want to have to depend on it (unless I worked all the bugs out).
 
I'm happy to be able to contribute to the community.

>I would want to have to depend on it

That's a good point. There's much more to go wrong in any semi with extraction and feed. The bolt gives you more sense and feel for both of those steps.

So here's a question for any of you serving or ex CF folks. How do you convince yourselves that the rifle you carry is actually going to work for you as expected when things get exciting?

Or do you just practice your quick trouble-shooting skills and toss it aside and switch to a backup if anything goes really wrong?

Ulrich
 
Good post OP!!!!

For a deer gun in the brush I'd take the SMLE because it's much shorter and handier than the SVT (I've got a sportered No 4 Mk I I sometimes use for that). The SVT IS a fun gun to shoot though.
 
Rayleigh_Scattering said:
I'm happy to be able to contribute to the community.

>I would want to have to depend on it

That's a good point. There's much more to go wrong in any semi with extraction and feed. The bolt gives you more sense and feel for both of those steps.
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This is just funny :) Fixed blade knife will never fail... Oh wait, it can get rusted when neglected. So stone or stick should be our primary choice :)
The bolt does not give you more control. You just did not acquire more control of semi rifle.

Rayleigh_Scattering said:
So here's a question for any of you serving or ex CF folks. How do you convince yourselves that the rifle you carry is actually going to work for you as expected when things get exciting?

Or do you just practice your quick trouble-shooting skills and toss it aside and switch to a backup if anything goes really wrong?

Ulrich
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Whatever you got, learn it, get trained with it, practice with it and then practice some more. Sleep with it, eat with eat, #### with it, give her a name and know her better than your GF. Doesn't really matter what you got.

As for your review - your background dictates your preferences and your conclusions. I can't stand peep sights just because since my childhood I was trained with open sights. The fact that peep sight does not have clear horizontal level of alignment and partially blurs the picture pisses me off. But I understand, that it is not disadvantage, it's my lack of training and experience with this kind of sights. My go-to SVT is 100% reliable rifle since the first time when I cleaned her and adjusted gas setting. I can operate SMLE but I would never pick this rifle over SVT. When it matters, wise guy always prefers familiar road over the "better one". For you it's SMLE, for me it's SVT-40. It is interesting to read such reviews - to see how different shooter perceive the same firearm, but apart of this there's nothing to compare, as in apples vs oranges.
 
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>prefers familiar road

Agreed. I like them both, but my familiarity with the SMLE has a lot to do with my impressions.

>100% reliable

That's encouraging to hear.

All this sounds like a good reason to go get more practice next weekend.

Ulrich
 
Although, if you hang a bayonet on the SVT, particularly the long version, there will nobody else in the woods with you within eyesight, guaranteed.
 
Horilka said:
This is just funny :) Fixed blade knife will never fail... Oh wait, it can get rusted when neglected. So stone or stick should be our primary choice :)
The bolt does not give you more control. You just did not acquire more control of semi rifle.



Whatever you got, learn it, get trained with it, practice with it and then practice some more. Sleep with it, eat with eat, #### with it, give her a name and know her better than your GF. Doesn't really matter what you got.

As for your review - your background dictates your preferences and your conclusions. I can't stand peep sights just because since my childhood I was trained with open sights. The fact that peep sight does not have clear horizontal level of alignment and partially blurs the picture pisses me off. But I understand, that it is not disadvantage, it's my lack of training and experience with this kind of sights. My go-to SVT is 100% reliable rifle since the first time when I cleaned her and adjusted gas setting. I can operate SMLE but I would never pick this rifle over SVT. When it matters, wise guy always prefers familiar road over the "better one". For you it's SMLE, for me it's SVT-40. It is interesting to read such reviews - to see how different shooter perceive the same firearm, but apart of this there's nothing to compare, as in apples vs oranges.
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I agree here except my comparison is with a Mosin rather than the SMLE. The SVT is easier to shoot well and for me has been very reliable once it is dialed in. Get the gas right and stick with the same type of ammo and all is good. Yes they have more parts and take a bit longer to clean but in my view the SVT is pretty decent gun. Remember they use a very similar type of mechanism as an C1A1. Personally I wouldn't use either as a deer gun I would rather have an SKS or better yet a good 270 bolt but hey each to their own.
 
Bolt guns are hard to beat, I think I might give my m305 a try out this fall and bring it into the woods with me... Have been meaning to get a k98 or a SMLE for a long time.
 
The C1A1 was a completely reliable weapon in my experience.

The SVT is a fine firearm that was basically unlucky. If it had been developed earlier and issued in large numbers it would probably rank as one of the best. As it was it came a little too late to benefit from the continuous improvement process that always results in improved reliability and ease of manufacture. Russia needed vast numbers of weapons of any kind to balance the losses of the first six months and to equip the very large forces deployed in 1942 and beyond. Better the 5 shot bolt action Mosin than a stick. By the time the pressure was off for sheer numbers, both the Germans and Russians realized the future was in assault rifles and the SVT became an answer to a question no longer asked.

The Mosin is my favorite. In an age where stuff becomes obsolete after a few months, it is nice to see a design that did only what was asked of it for 60+ years. No dingle balls, just pure function. Kind of like the wheel.
 
grinder08 said:
I agree here except my comparison is with a Mosin rather than the SMLE. The SVT is easier to shoot well and for me has been very reliable once it is dialed in. Get the gas right and stick with the same type of ammo and all is good. Yes they have more parts and take a bit longer to clean but in my view the SVT is pretty decent gun. Remember they use a very similar type of mechanism as an C1A1. Personally I wouldn't use either as a deer gun I would rather have an SKS or better yet a good 270 bolt but hey each to their own.
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Hey there grindero8, I am pleased to read that you would rather have your SKS as a deer rifle in the bush rather than a SMLE or SVT, could you expand on that point and tell us why?
 
To the OP. You mentioned you were shooting FMJ out of the .303 You may want to work up a soft point round unless your Province allows FMJ for hunting deer.
 
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ljones said:
To the OP. You mentioned you were shooting FMJ out of the .303 You may wan to work up a soft point round unless your Province allows FMJ for hunting deer.
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Quite true. For this batch of 303 I used .310 FMJ. After I pick up some more primers the next batch of 303 will use the same .311 150gr SPFT that the 7.62 did.

The bore slugs at .304/.314, so .311 will be a better fit than the .310, although I don't expect that to make a big difference.

Actually, with the different weight, and different driving load, and different bore fit, and different tail geometry it could end up quite different. Hmmm.

Ulrich
 
Robert Nicholson said:
Hey there grindero8, I am pleased to read that you would rather have your SKS as a deer rifle in the bush rather than a SMLE or SVT, could you expand on that point and tell us why?
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Out here anyway most deer are taken at less than 100 yards in or close to forests. The SKS is plenty accurate enough out to 100+ yards it is shorter than both the SMLE and SVT both of which are also overkill on a deer. While they will work fine they are more than you need. The SKS is also shorter and lighter than either the SMLE or SVT so handier in the trees. Just need to make sure you don't use surplus ammo but get commercial hunting ammo. The surplus is jacketed so will tend to go through and may not stop the deer just injure it.
 
grinder08 said:
Out here anyway most deer are taken at less than 100 yards in or close to forests. The SKS is plenty accurate enough out to 100+ yards it is shorter than both the SMLE and SVT both of which are also overkill on a deer. While they will work fine they are more than you need. The SKS is also shorter and lighter than either the SMLE or SVT so handier in the trees. Just need to make sure you don't use surplus ammo but get commercial hunting ammo. The surplus is jacketed so will tend to go through and may not stop the deer just injure it.
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Thanks, I'm still learning.
 
On the point of overkill of the round, something to consider is that the venerable 30-30, which has probably killed more deer in the last century than anything else within 100 meters, is the benchmark for deer cartridges. It's muzzle energy floats anywhere from 1400-2000 ft lbs depending on the load. 7.62x39 sits right in the middle of that range making an sks a fair deer gun.

7.62x54R and .303 will get the job done heartily, even at longer ranges if you're comfortable with the shot. I hunt with my Mosin sniper because I've gotten so comfortable with it. Do what's comfortable, because that can mean the difference between a miss or tracking a bleeding deer and dragging it out of a swamp.

Also, in most places it's illegal to hunt with full metal jackets so plus one on getting commercial ammunition for hunting.
 
>getting commercial ammunition

Fully agreed on using soft point. I made up a few dozen last night and they look yummy.

Actually, I've got no further use for the FMJ's so I'll likely post the rest of the box in the EE.

No point practicing with 174gr FMJ and then actually heading out with 150gr SPFT.
 
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