Love this! Been saying it for years.

S

swissinn

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Throw enough lead at anything and you'll hit it eventually.

http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/story/1593732-not-so-world-record-shot
 
I would agree. Shooting a single shot that hits a target once at 3800yds doesn't make it anything special or a world record. I don't see how it's a human physical feat, it's more like a proving ground for your ballistics than anything else. You're just testing physics and the ability to create something that extends the equipment's ability to defy it forces. It's a great achievement like launching a rocket but a world record it doesn't create.

 
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Nice job of speaking Yoda like.....

Hahahah!!

My only comment is that I consider sniper work as the crux of LR shooting, and those longest kill records all come with multiple shots and adjustments. Just a thought, I'm not arguing.... Or rather, "argue not am i"

-J.
 
It's much more satisfying for me to get a CCB shot at 1200m on a twelve inch wide tgt than a 5th round hit at 1500m. Even a 2nd round hit is better. The first 2 are the only ones that matter tactically speaking.
 
But what is a clean cold bore? Clean clean or cleaned then fouled in 10-15 shots I thought I have heard of some ERT teams leaving thier .338's in this ready condition. I could be wrong but just thought I would throw that out there of course this may not be very practical for every one.
 
I had the pleasure of being in the target pits when a new US NRA F OPEN 1000yds record was shot...... 200-17X out of a possible 200-20X.

The X ring is 5" across, the 10 ring is 10" across. Location was Deep Creek Range in Missoula, MT... Sept 27, 15.. Yeah, as in last weekend

I believe this would also qualify as a WORLD RECORD in F open as I have never heard of a higher score shot in a sanctioned match (ICFRA or NRA) on a standardised target and format.

See, that was easy..... Have a standard shooting format that is used by other competitors and observed/regulated to be fair and results accurate. When someone reaches a pinnacle for that task/game... Yeah, call it a record. Till then, just a bunch of guys having fun seeing what the other side of a mountain is like.

I have shot and hit with a Ruger 22LR at 200yds offhand... record? No, but you wouldn't want to be standing there.

I have had the pleasure of ELR shooting. Furthest was a 6.5 out to 2340 yds GPS ranged. 223/80gr bullet at 1 mile. I quit trying to go further as the PITA factor just wasn't worth the puff of dust at impact.

I think the learning of how to actually create that much elevation to lobe a bullet that far IS something to celebrate.

So if ELR shooters want to create records, form an association, figure out a format, then go crazy trying to beat it.... simple

Jerry
 
DG Photography said:
But what is a clean cold bore? Clean clean or cleaned then fouled in 10-15 shots I thought I have heard of some ERT teams leaving thier .338's in this ready condition. I could be wrong but just thought I would throw that out there of course this may not be very practical for every one.
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CCB is completely stripped of copper. Bare Metal.
DCB is leaving it fouled with a few shots down the pipe. This is the preferred way to leave a tactical rifle that might need to shoot someone. Less variation in shots. CCB is a very real thing. It doesn't show itself much at shorter ranges but what does a cm at 100 turn into at a grand? Every sniper in the CAF should know where that first shot goes compared to the following shots. We've been taught it since day one.
 
swissinn said:
CCB is completely stripped of copper. Bare Metal.
DCB is leaving it fouled with a few shots down the pipe. This is the preferred way to leave a tactical rifle that might need to shoot someone. Less variation in shots. CCB is a very real thing. It doesn't show itself much at shorter ranges but what does a cm at 100 turn into at a grand? Every sniper in the CAF should know where that first shot goes compared to the following shots. We've been taught it since day one.
Click to expand...

I have to ask swissinn, as an active military sniper what do you think overall of the current long range shooting game? I know the F-Class and Benchrest with sighters and everything isn't exactly real world and I would agree that walking a .416 Cheytac (or whatever super high BC magnum chambering in vogue at the time) onto a 4' by 4' target at a gazillion yards isn't either.

Do the US PRS competitions best simulate what you do or is that kind of a different game as well? Those PRS comps seems really interesting and fun and I would love to try one at some point, or even better have them in Canada, but it would seem these events also have much more gear involved than what an military sniper would have (they have the pump pillows, etc.). They also seem to completely discount the whole stealth aspect and careful planning that I would assume goes into what you do.

I could be completely off base, I just wanted to ask. Sorry to derail.
 
I'd love to hear too. The real life guys are the ones I aspire to.....no slight to the target guys at all cause I learn a tonne, that's just my goofy wannabe brain.....

-J.
 
PRS matches are not a sniper competitions. They're precision rifle competitions. As noted, the vast majority of them do not focus on any form of field craft, they focus on marksmanship skills that apply to field shooting. Skills that are applicable to snipers, designated marksmen and hunters.

Many matches are run by former snipers. Lowlight (Frank Galli) in the article in the OP link is a former Marine sniper. Scott Satterlee (ssatt68 on CGN) has been a US SOF sniper and is currently a SOF instructor (his thoughts here:http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...y-Marksman-Explains-why-Gun-Nutz-Shoot-Better).
 
At a go kombayotch. DCRA used to call their PR matches "sniper". Incorrect and not wise. CISC is a sniper comp and a few weeks ago it was great to see a top sniper teamed up with a PRS competitor as C/S 66, who quickly engaged targets at various ranges in .308 Win and .338LM. This was for the Vendor's shoot and what a top job of filtering from novices to snipers through with spot-on elevation and sharp wind calls. Nice kit as well - Timberwolf and Coyote, Lapua ammo, Hensoldt Spotters and lazer range finders from Insight 20-20.
 
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Shooting is realistically such a small percentage of a real sniper's job. I forget where I read the article, but there was an article that basically compared target shooting of any kind, to sniping, and talked about why you don't hear more about these super far shots being taken regularly.
The fact that you are running rack grade guns with rack grade ammo, there is no tuning a load, or running a higher BC bullet. You get what you get. Maybe the QC at the factory sucks and you got one with a crooked chamber, and no matter who shoots it, its a 1.5 MOA gun........

It doesn't live in a padded pelican case that gets gingerly taken from the back seat of your car to the firing line. It gets smashed into an Eberlestock or something similar, along with a MINIMUM of 90lbs of other crap nobody wants to carry. Then it gets carried for KM's through the woods or up a mountain, sometimes the poor idiot carrying it trips and rolls down a hill into a ravine or something with it on. How's your zero after that trip? You don't get to test it after that. Then it may sit out in the rain and wind and dust for 2 or 3 days while the guys live in a hole somewhere waiting for a chance to take a shot. How fresh are the guys with the gun after that? I guarantee of that 90lbs+ of crap they are carrying they probably have barely more than 2L of water a day, and probably 1 single ration a day with a few snickers bars thrown into the mix.

I too would LOVE to do some PRS shooting matches. I haven't been there nor done it myself. However seeing pictures of people with 2 or 3 pump pillows and a bunch of other crap makes me a lot less interested in it. I don't see a sniper team carrying a few pump pillows around with them, I highly doubt too many hunters will be carrying pump pillows with them either.
Not trying to talk smack on PRS shooting, like I said I would love to do some competitions and I am currently trying to figure out how to run a few courses of fire on a rather square range myself.
 
CanuckR said:
I don't see a sniper team carrying a few pump pillows around with them, I highly doubt too many hunters will be carrying pump pillows with them either.
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They are using them in competitions. SOF snipers at the USASOC Competition at Fort Bragg:

USASOC1_zpslbo0rnal.jpg


A small backpack, a bag, a rolled up jacked can all be used in the same way as the pillows. And these were what was used in matches before the pillows came around. They are a fairly new thing.
 
I can see them being used in competition by military units, and I can also see them being used by SOF units depending on the operation, but I doubt too many green army guys will carry them, not saying nobody will carry them. But I personally can't think of anybody that will pack one in a rucksack.

And yes a back pack, a water bottle, anything else in or including your bag can and will be used as a shooting aid. But there aren't too many things getting packed into a rucksack that are as limited in use, as a pump pillow, and can't be substituted with something else with more uses.
I suppose you could use a pump pillow as a real pillow though.... now you've got me thinking.

I guess I can see why they are getting used in competition, if they are allowed, why not run em. It's smaller and faster than a back pack or rolling up a jacket.
 
Everything canuck said was bang on. Our poor rifles and equipment go thru hell and back and then back to hell again. Guys aren't well rested, well fed or well hydrated. We just make do. There are sniper specific matches (CISC), Fort Benning etc. PRS matches use lots of alternate positions etc but sniper competitions they are not. I do think we could benefit from doing a few of them though.
 
kombayotch said:
They are using them in competitions. SOF snipers at the USASOC Competition at Fort Bragg:

USASOC1_zpslbo0rnal.jpg


A small backpack, a bag, a rolled up jacked can all be used in the same way as the pillows. And these were what was used in matches before the pillows came around. They are a fairly new thing.
Click to expand...

Just cuz SOF is using something doesnt mean it's the greatest. I do recall wiping the floor with Aussie SAS at CISC 2 years ago. They had ALL the Gucci stuff. Didn't mean squat.
 
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