Are gas checks on .44 mag hot loads really necessary?

cdncowboy

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I would like to reload some hot bear rounds with my 300 grn hard cast bullets. I will shoot some for practice but I do not expect that I will shoot that many (<50). The hard cast bullets I have from bullet barn are the 44 FP BB so I cannot use a gas check with them. How much fouling can I expect without a gas check on a hot round using H110? I would rather not have to purchase additional hard cast with gas check recess as I have these and would like to use them.

Thanks.
 
Out of a pistol gas checks are unnecessary.
Hot loads will help upset the base of the bullet to seal the gasses.
Where you can run into issues with hard cast is in medium loads where the lube is not enough to seal the gasses but the base of the bullet isn't filling the rifling fully allowing the gas to slip by. This can cause leading issues.
In a .44 mag rifle with microgroove rifling I would say gas checks are a must. Ballard rifling is usually ok with plain base .44 mag
 
It depends on several factors. Generally a 300gr in a .44 mag will be slow enough that the velocity wont cause leading without a gas check but if your bore is on the larger side or is rough you can get leading whether you have a gas check or not.

You want the bullets .001" to .002" over groove diameter which varies from barrel to barrel even in brand new factory firearms. My Marlin 1894 with Micro-Groove rifling slugs at .4315" which is quite large for .44 mag. Micro-Groove have special considerations for cast as well and pretty much always need a gas check.

If you have a rough or pitted, uneven bore you can also get leading.

If you have a really generous throat/forcing cone in your rifle/revolver you can get pretty bad leading there if you don't use bullets sized for that instead of the bore.

I had leading near the muzzle in a .45-70 that I shot plain-base cast through when I approached 1700fps. If I stayed under that I was fine.

In short, the answer is "it depends". A lot more detail is required to make an educated guess. If you haven't slugged your bore yet there is no way to tell even if other factors are known.


Where you can run into issues with hard cast is in medium loads where the lube is not enough to seal the gasses but the base of the bullet isn't filling the rifling fully allowing the gas to slip by.
The lube doesn't seal the bore at all. Wax can't seal 30,000+ psi. The lube just lubricates the interface between lead and steel so the lead doesn't gall in the barrel. Without lube you would definitely have leading but not because of a gas seal. The bullet should be large enough (oversized .001-.002") to seal the entire barrel on it's own. The bullet should be swaged down to groove/bore diameter in the throat/forcing cone. Gas checks are used generally when the pressures are high enough to damage/deteriorate the lead alloy used. It's essentially a condom between the hot, high-pressure gasses and the (relatively) soft, malleable lead.
 
Out of a pistol gas checks are unnecessary.
Hot loads will help upset the base of the bullet to seal the gasses.
Where you can run into issues with hard cast is in medium loads where the lube is not enough to seal the gasses but the base of the bullet isn't filling the rifling fully allowing the gas to slip by. This can cause leading issues.
In a .44 mag rifle with microgroove rifling I would say gas checks are a must. Ballard rifling is usually ok with plain base .44 mag

The gun I will be using is a Chiappa Mares leg with the 12" barrel, 6 grooves and 1:20 twist.
 
So standard Ballard rifling; that's good, makes life a lot easier.
1:20 twist rate should work with the 300gr. Marlin's often don't work with bullets that heavy because many of the .44 Micro-Groove barrels have a 1:38 twist rate. S&W revolvers use a 1:18.75 twist rate and they seem to work well with the 300gr bullets.


Define "hot".
Are you just loading near/at max for a .44 mag or are you trying to make yourself some +P rounds? At or near max you should be fine but I'd personally avoid +P .44 mag loads in, well, pretty much anything. +P is rated as 10% above normal SAAMI max pressure level (+P+ is totally unregulated).

At max pressure with a 300gr bullet you'd be looking at 1200-1400fps out of a 12" barrel. Likely don't need gas checks but make sure the bullets you buy are of a suitable diameter.
 
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So standard Ballard rifling; that's good, makes life a lot easier.
1:20 twist rate should work with the 300gr. Marlin's often don't work with bullets that heavy because many of the .44 Micro-Groove barrels have a 1:38 twist rate. S&W revolvers use a 1:18.75 twist rate and they seem to work well with the 300gr bullets.


Define "hot".
Are you just loading near/at max for a .44 mag or are you trying to make yourself some +P rounds? At or near max you should be fine but I'd personally avoid +P .44 mag loads in, well, pretty much anything. +P is rated as 10% above normal SAAMI max pressure level (+P+ is totally unregulated).

At max pressure with a 300gr bullet you'd be looking at 1200-1400fps out of a 12" barrel. Likely don't need gas checks but make sure the bullets you buy are of a suitable diameter.

My definition of 'hot' would be max-ish for .44 mag per Hodgdon charts .. so 19-20 grns of H110.

Thanks for the help.
 
I would suggest you read Glen Frixle's e - book on cast bullets (from ingot to target) if you are into that sort of thing. Even if you don't cast it is a good education on shooting cast.
Internet advice being mostly worth what you paid for it.
 
Why not try them and see how they do? Even if they lead the barrel, if you just shoot a few, bring a cleaning kit when you practice with them.
If they end up leading your barrel, Jethunter on here sells 310 grain WFNGC .44 mag bullets which I suspect are from a Lee mold.
I use the Lee bullet with a max charge of H-110 and get 1435fps. The bullet has a huge meplat and almost looks like wadcutter, yet feeds wonderfully in both my Rossi 92s. I also find the recoil is much less snappy than with 240 grain full loads.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/996374-Cast-Bullets
 
I would suggest you read Glen Frixle's e - book on cast bullets (from ingot to target) if you are into that sort of thing. Even if you don't cast it is a good education on shooting cast.
Internet advice being mostly worth what you paid for it.
Agree great read for anyone wanting to cast or just shoot lead. You can down load it for free off the NRA site. Also agree that info off internet should always be taken with a grain of salt. Facts, source, and numbers, other wise it's only for entertainment.
 
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