Ranger rifle for civilians

Could sour grapes have been a factor, there?

If your buddies recommended against the rifle, and it was adopted anyway, maybe they left feeling butthurt.

I know if I was reviewing evaluations, and there was a bunch of complaints about something which is already settled, I'd tend to ignore those evaluations.

Say, the rifle being a push feed instead of CRF, when push feed had already been evaluated as acceptable for the specification.

If Herbert has a hard on for CRF, he's likely to be unfairly picky about other things, to suit his prejudice.

The problem would not be the push feed bolt, but the plunger ejector which will certainly fail when the rifle is neglected over a period of time while exposed to a salt water environment. If the new rifle has a fixed ejector, this of course won't be a problem, but that would require a redesign of the action.
 
The problem would not be the push feed bolt, but the plunger ejector which will certainly fail when the rifle is neglected over a period of time while exposed to a salt water environment. If the new rifle has a fixed ejector, this of course won't be a problem, but that would require a redesign of the action.

Ranger rifles are never neglected.
 
As others mention the Tikka T3 Tactical is the same and can be got. Here is its big brother not the compact, one beautiful rifle, a good choice by the government. The Ranger one is also threaded for the muzzle break.

T3.JPG
 
As others mention the Tikka T3 Tactical is the same and can be got. Here is its big brother not the compact, one beautiful rifle, a good choice by the government. The Ranger one is also threaded for the muzzle break.

T3.JPG
the tactical is $1800 vs the $1000 of the CTR and does not have the 10 rnd metal magazine. No thanks.
 
The problem would not be the push feed bolt, but the plunger ejector which will certainly fail when the rifle is neglected over a period of time while exposed to a salt water environment. If the new rifle has a fixed ejector, this of course won't be a problem, but that would require a redesign of the action.

I used "push feed" interchangeably with "employs a plunger ejector", and they aren't the same (i.e. the Sako 75). Fair enough. I get you, though.

A lot of "fixed ejectors" aren't really fixed. The "fixed" ejector in the Ruger M77 (MKII and on) used in the Ruger Scout is spring loaded to fold out of the way when the action is closed. How is this always-folded ejector less susceptible to a corrosion related failure? If it stays folded, you're exactly as ####ed as if a plunger fails to pop back out.

I think that the abuse that would make a plunger ejector quit would be murder on any number of other mechanisms, as well. Particularly salt water, especially soak-dry-damp cycles.

The "fixed vs. plunger" debate will never be solved because failures due to either are pretty darned rare, too rare to become actual *data*. Especially in actual military/milspec firearms. A plunger ejector was clearly deemed to be acceptable to the specification. Before the rifle went to field evaluation, it almost certainly had to pass a reliability test, so I doubt people reading field reports were very interested in reading editorial critiques of operating principles which did not in fact create a failure in the field, during that reviewers evaluation. Brother's best friend's cousin's anecdotal reports carry zero weight.

Someone hands you a brand new stainless Tikka design, superbly made by Colt Canada and says "what do you think?" You evaluate it for 6 months, and it proves to be light, accurate, and reliable, then what negative thing can you say, without editorializing? The person concatenating field reviews will discard your editorial comments. He or she has to.
 
I used "push feed" interchangeably with "employs a plunger ejector", and they aren't the same (i.e. the Sako 75). Fair enough. I get you, though.

A lot of "fixed ejectors" aren't really fixed. The "fixed" ejector in the Ruger M77 (MKII and on) used in the Ruger Scout is spring loaded to fold out of the way when the action is closed. How is this always-folded ejector less susceptible to a corrosion related failure? If it stays folded, you're exactly as ####ed as if a plunger fails to pop back out.

I think that the abuse that would make a plunger ejector quit would be murder on any number of other mechanisms, as well. Particularly salt water, especially soak-dry-damp cycles.

The "fixed vs. plunger" debate will never be solved because failures due to either are pretty darned rare, too rare to become actual *data*. Especially in actual military/milspec firearms. A plunger ejector was clearly deemed to be acceptable to the specification. Before the rifle went to field evaluation, it almost certainly had to pass a reliability test, so I doubt people reading field reports were very interested in reading editorial critiques of operating principles which did not in fact create a failure in the field, during that reviewers evaluation. Brother's best friend's cousin's anecdotal reports carry zero weight.

Someone hands you a brand new stainless Tikka design, superbly made by Colt Canada and says "what do you think?" You evaluate it for 6 months, and it proves to be light, accurate, and reliable, then what negative thing can you say, without editorializing? The person concatenating field reviews will discard your editorial comments. He or she has to.

I didn't even realize that the Ruger used a fold away ejector, so I checked the Hawkeye in my locker, and sure enough it folds down. Well, whatayaknow! It does make you wonder why Ruger went to the trouble of designing an inferior extractor over the time proven rigid one that's existed for 150 years.

The incident that really got me wondering about the wisdom of selecting a rifle with a plunger ejector wasn't with a rifle at all, but a Remington 870 Marine magnum, that I was asked to repair. The gun was used in the course of a commercial guide operation, and spent several weeks in an open boat. While not specifically abused, neither was the gun rinsed off daily with fresh water which would have prevented any problem. The problem this 870 had was that the plunger under the extractor had frozen with the spring fully compressed, and the extractor was subsequently lost. This on a stainless gun with all stainless components. Soaking the bolt in brake fluid released the stuck plunger, and I cleaned the recess and replaced spring, plunger and extractor with new.

Now the plunger ejector in a rifle's bolt face, would need to be left with a round, live or fired, in the chamber, in order for it to be compressed, and there would be much less opportunity for a bolt face to be exposed to salt water, than the 870's extractor. But being submerged in salt water while left on the floor of an open boat in rough weather is not beyond the realm of possibility, and would allow salt water to contact the bolt face through the bore. Now it might be said that this is an exaggeration by those who treat their guns as cherished belongings, but in the north a rifle is frequently treated with all the care and consideration one might extend to an axe, particularity if one is of the mind that a stainless rifle in a plywood stock is indestructible. Clearly in similar conditions, the Ruger would be equally if not more prone to failure.
 
Mike,

the 3 guys i know of evaluated the Tikka and the Ruger never heard of any other firearms in the last round. none of them liked the tikka and the guys from Ottawa were not happy with those feedbacks.

i know at least two of them are no longer ranger after the decision taken on the firearm, there is may be something else.

on the ruger it is really a shame that the production or partial production has to be made here. anyway the actions and barrels will not be made here nor the stock ...

as you said time will tell but i want to see a tikka after a run in a sled, a boat will it be salt or even fresh water.

These men are entitled to their opinions, but there will always be people unwilling to change. They should be thanked for their service, and allowed to leave with their pride. And life goes on.

There are people who think the P40 Warhawk was the finest airplane of WW2; yes it was good in its day, like the Lee Enfield, but technology improves.
 
i have no dog in the fight and most of us will never serve for the Army will it be for the Army or the Reserve or even the Rangers. i can but being on a waiting list is not what i like but that is just me in the same time even with a metal inside the Tikka this is a tikka with a plastic part for the safety .... and other stuffs that tikka lovers cant stand lol ...

im not the spoke man for those guys. they told me about what happens when they have been asked to test rifles with people from Ottawa waiting for their feedback, those people didnt like the tikka and im not there to explain why as i wasnt part of the test. i do not like that much this specific ruger as they have some issues with magasines ... so there is something that was not disclosed to the poor civilian we are.

i sold enough tikkas to say there are great tool but despite getting a huge discount on them i do not have one ...

for those that never seen how rifles are treated in the north cant wait to see the rifles back after the first patrol with boat or skidoos ....

in my army unit long time ago they started to have tikka t3 for evaluation they finished with Gendarmerie and some kind of SWAT units never in regular combat units.

i know that the role of rangers is more to observe and report but seems some are not willing to listen what i ve been told about the evaluation of this specific rifle.
 
I didn't even realize that the Ruger used a fold away ejector, so I checked the Hawkeye in my locker, and sure enough it folds down. Well, whatayaknow! It does make you wonder why Ruger went to the trouble of designing an inferior extractor over the time proven rigid one that's existed for 150 years.

Mauser rifles use a folding ejector. P14 and P17 rifles use a folding ejector. Winchester Model 70 uses (used) a folding ejector. It's almost like Ruger and Tikka used a proven, century old design on their rifles. In fact, I think you would be hard pressed to find any centerfire rifle, other than the Lee Enfield series, that DON'T use either a folding or plunger style ejector.
 
Mauser rifles use a folding ejector. P14 and P17 rifles use a folding ejector. Winchester Model 70 uses (used) a folding ejector. It's almost like Ruger and Tikka used a proven, century old design on their rifles. In fact, I think you would be hard pressed to find any centerfire rifle, other than the Lee Enfield series, that DON'T use either a folding or plunger style ejector.

Yup, clearly I mispoke when I referred to the CRF ejector as fixed, and I'm more than a little chagrined that I made that error given that I have a dozen or more CRF rifles.:redface:
 
BUM you lived in northern communauties so if a man knows about it it s you and that is what is but we shouldnt say so lol ....

I thought it would help recruitment! Free rifle and cadpat? Half of CGN would sign up and probably move North to do so!

Hint - if you use your snowmobile and pull your own sled you get double the money.
 
I thought it would help recruitment! Free rifle and cadpat? Half of CGN would sign up and probably move North to do so!

Hint - if you use your snowmobile and pull your own sled you get double the money.

Cadpat lol i think i really like my clothing we have to use for outdoor ... cadpat will be the last one ....

i imagine you being the sergeant doing the recruitment in Whitehorse lol ....all in cadpat ...

the same for boat and engine ....
 
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