Norinco M-14 bolt jumping out/falling off of operating rod?

saskgunowner101

saskgunowner101

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Hey guys, my Norinco M-14 clone has a problem that has popped up, that I don't understand at all. I've owned the rifle since new, no hard use or whatever, and low round count. If I said 200 rounds through it, I'd be guessing high, she's a safe queen for the most part. has functioned with no issue for me.

Anyways, put it up for sale locally, friend of a friend bought it. He had it all of a day, and it wouldn't work for him, apparently didn't even get a shot out of it. The bolt would jump out of the slot in the Op rod almost every time he cycled it. He brought it back to me, and I was kind of perplexed, but I operated it without the Op rod/bolt problem happening with him here. It will cycle and shoot for me. Yet when he operated it ( it fired for him, but when cycled by hand) it would jump out.

I disassembled the rifle, nothing broken inside, and again, the bolt doesn't jump off the Op rod for me. It wouldn't jump off for the girlfriend either when cycling. I'm left handed, so I suppose when I manipulate the Op rod, I'm exerting pressure towards the rifle and back. I suppose I could make it jump if I popeye'd it to the rear and rotate hard up or down pressure.

Our mutual friend has the same rifle, and apparently his rifle is much tighter?

So....any thoughts as to what I'm dealing with??? Is there a test or some reasoning as to why this might happen? Where do I go from here? Thanks in advance.

BTW, does the bolt on these rifles look odd, as in seemingly flat on the top of the bolt, yet a curve on the bottom of the bolt?

The combination of my computer and photobucket is a cruel mistress, but if anyone would need a pic of any certain area to determine something, I've no problem sending a pic to an e-mail or phone.
 
The first thing I would check is the operating rod guide on the barrel. If it is loose and/or misaligned, that will do it. The next most likely cause is a bent operating rod.
 
Is your friend cycling the action with his palm up which tends to pull the op rod up, and potentially out of engagement with the bolt lug, while pulling it to the rear? The rifle should be cocked with the palm down which avoids this.
 
tjhaile said:
The first thing I would check is the operating rod guide on the barrel. If it is loose and/or misaligned, that will do it. The next most likely cause is a bent operating rod.
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How do I determine what loose is? I do know there is slight play up and down with the Op rod while the rifle is assembled. The Op rod seems straight to the naked eye when removed from the rifle. With my calipers down the length (no metal straight edge here), you can tell it isn't perfectly straight. We're not talking spark plug size difference, sheet or sheets of paper stacked difference. I'm not sure what kind of tolerance I should be looking for?
 
purple said:
Is your friend cycling the action with his palm up which tends to pull the op rod up, and potentially out of engagement with the bolt lug, while pulling it to the rear? The rifle should be cocked with the palm down which avoids this.
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You know, I wasn't even paying attention to that aspect, I was watching for the bolt to jump out. I suppose it's possible, but I'm not looking to lay blame on the operator. Even if it doesn't jump for me, what's to say it won't for the next right handed guy. Should it be physically or mechanically near impossible for this to happen with the gun assembled?
 
saskgunowner101 said:
You know, I wasn't even paying attention to that aspect, I was watching for the bolt to jump out. I suppose it's possible, but I'm not looking to lay blame on the operator. Even if it doesn't jump for me, what's to say it won't for the next right handed guy. Should it be physically or mechanically near impossible for this to happen with the gun assembled?
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Considering the design to remove the bolt is by pulling the op rod away from the roller, the operator needs to take a certain amount of responsibility in using it properly.
My assumption on reading the first post was he was pulling it away from the rifle. Have him cycle it a few times manually in front of you. I'd be almost certain that's the problem.
 
Jon. said:
Considering the design to remove the bolt is by pulling the op rod away from the roller, the operator needs to take a certain amount of responsibility in using it properly.
My assumption on reading the first post was he was pulling it away from the rifle. Have him cycle it a few times manually in front of you. I'd be almost certain that's the problem.
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I'm going to try different methods later to see if I can make it jump off at will. If there's a flaw, it shouldn't be hard to make it screw up every time. I do believe a right handed person more so than a lefty, would tend to pull back and outwards. I'm guilty of that on the sks, that's for sure.
 
saskgunowner101 said:
How do I determine what loose is? I do know there is slight play up and down with the Op rod while the rifle is assembled. The Op rod seems straight to the naked eye when removed from the rifle. With my calipers down the length (no metal straight edge here), you can tell it isn't perfectly straight. We're not talking spark plug size difference, sheet or sheets of paper stacked difference. I'm not sure what kind of tolerance I should be looking for?
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Strip the rifle down to barrel and receiver. The op-rod guide on the barrel should ideally have no play in it for best accuracy. If it moves maybe 1/8" (I'm estimating; don't think of this as too "hard" of a number) or less either way, it isn't good for accuracy, but should still function correctly. It would require quite a bit of play to cause the problem.
 
Ya, I've met a few guys who are too dumb to operate these rifles properly... No one from CGN LOL but in my travels I've met the odd guy that just can't grasp the simple operation of pulling the oprod to the rear with downward pressure and let it fly home.
I'll say operator error and I'll guess the same guy has problems using power tools and staple guns as well.
 
This is a tough one without pics... but no need to email any because this has happened to a few m305 that has come across my table. 1. Remove and examine the op rod. Pay close attention to the milled grove that rotates and that the bolt rides on. It is milled bar stock so it could wear down especially if you are using the wrong ammo. These types of rifles like to run 150g so if you are feeding 180g hunting loads through it, it will be hard on the metal. I have welded that section of the guild rod before with harder steel, built it up and grounded it down.

2. Laid the op rod against a flat surface. It could be bent. I have a friend who bent his back.

3. Check the op rod guild. The barrel might have to be re-knurled.

4. There might be too much play in the op rod spring guide. You could buy an aftermarket cylindrical one for about $36 and it act as a better guide than the OEM stamped flat one.

If everything looks good and there is not too much play on the op rod guide, I would try #4 first. Good luck.
 
If it works fine for you I'd be inclined to agree with 45ACPKING : your friend's friend is pulling the charging handle upwards and away from the receiver (which happens to be how the charging handle is removed) instead of down and towards the receiver.
 
45ACPKING said:
Ya, I've met a few guys who are too dumb to operate these rifles properly... No one from CGN LOL but in my travels I've met the odd guy that just can't grasp the simple operation of pulling the oprod to the rear with downward pressure and let it fly home.
I'll say operator error and I'll guess the same guy has problems using power tools and staple guns as well.
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I need to hear the staple gun story.
 
I'm going to say it's a technique issue as well. On a side note, my barrel was slightly under indexed, and as such, so was the oprod guide. After re-indexing, I found it more difficult to simulate the same malfunction.
 
Don't take the front sight position as gospel, some of those flash hiders are wonky. But if it is over indexed, that would put the rod guide closer to where the op rod could slip off if racked improperly. Plus if the guide is loosy goosey, that would also amplify the "issue".
 
goldenbb said:
I need to hear the staple gun story.
Click to expand...

Picture a guy who knows about and is the best at everything... Nothing anyone else does trumps his abilities and accomplishments at work and afield LOL
So a buddy invites this guy on a shooting day with us. We set up in a big clear cut and me and this guy walk out to post targets at 1,2 and 300 yards. We have big sight in targets to attach to 2ftx3ft pieces of plastic corogated sign board. And 4foot long 1x4 wooden pickets to pound in and staple gun the sign board to. I brought tape for attaching the target to the sign board.

So me and superhero are out in the cleear cut while my friend is range finding us for the 300 yard target.
After stapling the sign board to the picket and pounding in the ground, I go to tape on the target.
Superhero takes exception to my using tape and suggests stapling the paper to the board.... He doesn't even hesitate to put his hand on the back of the sign board and staple right through the target and plastic sign board and into his hand LOL 1/2" staple. We ended up using tape and superhero was not invited shooting again LOL
Heaven forbid what would happened if we let him shoot my M25 haha
 
Ive pulled it off twice. He is basically disassembling the bolt by accident by pulling away from the gun /twisting. Once it hits the cutout it pops off. Nut behind the butt error not gun.
 
45ACPKING said:
Picture a guy who knows about and is the best at everything... Nothing anyone else does trumps his abilities and accomplishments at work and afield LOL
So a buddy invites this guy on a shooting day with us. We set up in a big clear cut and me and this guy walk out to post targets at 1,2 and 300 yards. We have big sight in targets to attach to 2ftx3ft pieces of plastic corogated sign board. And 4foot long 1x4 wooden pickets to pound in and staple gun the sign board to. I brought tape for attaching the target to the sign board.

So me and superhero are out in the cleear cut while my friend is range finding us for the 300 yard target.
After stapling the sign board to the picket and pounding in the ground, I go to tape on the target.
Superhero takes exception to my using tape and suggests stapling the paper to the board.... He doesn't even hesitate to put his hand on the back of the sign board and staple right through the target and plastic sign board and into his hand LOL 1/2" staple. We ended up using tape and superhero was not invited shooting again LOL
Heaven forbid what would happened if we let him shoot my M25 haha
Click to expand...

Lmao.
 
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