Trespassers

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Fire306

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I posted the story about how I acquired a piece of property that I have been wanting to buy for 20+ years, in the buying hunting land thread. So now I own a nice little hunting property (67 acres), that many other people wanted to buy. It was owned by an elderly woman who was a long time family friend, and about 10 (maybe longer) years ago she decided she didn't want anyone hunting her property, so myself and a few of the other neighbors that hunted there respected her decision and kept off her property.

Skip forward to today, I own it, my immediate family and a few close friends are hunting it now, but everywhere we turn someone is telling us that they hunt there, one of my wife's co-workers is quite adamant that he hunts there, and is pestering her a fair bit about where our lines are, etc. She keeps telling him we bought the property to hunt and enjoy, so we are hunting there, and to please respect that. Now his argument with her is that an unopened road allowance runs between my land and the neighbors, and that he can hunt it all he wants and we can't stop him.

Does anyone know the actual rules on this? I'm in Ontario.

The part that really ticks me off is these goons continued hunting the property all these years against the previous owners wishes, and now think they have some kind of entitlement to hunt there.
I actually am not totally against others hunting my land, because I have hunted many properties in my life that I didn't own, but this guys attitude is driving me nuts. Other part that sucks is I have employees on holidays next week (rifle season here) and I won't be able to be out hunting or to be around the property watching it.
 
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I don't know what the reg's are in Ontario, but in NB you can post your land for hunting by permission only, and this allows you to hunt on your property, and let only those you wish to, hunt on it.
 
Get an overhead property pic of your land from your local township office (free of charge). All the property lines will be there. Call police and have trespassers charged. Post private property. Enjoy your land.
 
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I'd say join the O.L.A.

Every land owner should be a gun owner, and vice versa. We really need to start supporting each other in our bid to entrench 'de facto' property rights in this country.
 
Read the Trespass To property Act Ontario . It is on the internet. It will describe how to properly sign your land to notify people that they are trespassing . Fine is $50 plus $15 victim surcharge
 
canadaman30 said:
Get an overhead property pic of your land from your local township office (free of charge). All the property lines will be there. Call police and have trespassers charged. Post private property. Enjoy your land.
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Be sure to post your property with no trespass. A paint lid painted red or actual signage is fair warning.
Here is Ontario law and how it pertains to you.

http://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90t21

Method of giving notice
5. (1) A notice under this Act may be given,

(a) orally or in writing;

(b) by means of signs posted so that a sign is clearly visible in daylight under normal conditions from the approach to each ordinary point of access to the premises to which it applies; or

(c) by means of the marking system set out in section 7. R.S.O. 1990, c. T.21, s. 5 (1).
 
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CoonT said:
I'd say join the O.L.A.
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What is the O.L.A.?

I know where my lot lines are, and I know I can sign it no trespassing, or red dots. The one thing I really can't seem to find is about hunting the unopened road allowance. To me it wouldn't make sense that you are allowed to hunt it without owning adjacent land, or without permission to be on adjacent land. We run into this same problem on Manitoulin Island, where a bunch of guys seem to thing its okay to grouse hunt up and down the road allowance that runs along our property. Manitoulin however does have the "written permission" rule for hunting, which to me would rule out all road allowances.
 
Pretty sure the fines would be a lot heavier if you were caught "hunting" on private land , even more if you were caught with dead game animals on the land.
 
Fire306 said:
What is the O.L.A.?

I know where my lot lines are, and I know I can sign it no trespassing, or red dots. The one thing I really can't seem to find is about hunting the unopened road allowance. To me it wouldn't make sense that you are allowed to hunt it without owning adjacent land, or without permission to be on adjacent land. We run into this same problem on Manitoulin Island, where a bunch of guys seem to thing its okay to grouse hunt up and down the road allowance that runs along our property. Manitoulin however does have the "written permission" rule for hunting, which to me would rule out all road allowances.
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Ontario Landowners Association.
http://w w w.ontariolandowners.ca/
 
It has been my sad experience that the enforcement of the trespass act in Ontario on rural lands by the various Ontario agencies charged with the enforcement of said act is a joke. Not enough manpower nor the will to take this offence seriously.
A dangerous situation when unknown hunters could be shooting on the same property.

hardin
 
The Unopened Crown Road Allowance is exactly what it sounds like - it's "Crown Land" that is simply "not-opened", meaning that no road is currently there BUT it's reserved in case, at some later date, the County (which has jurisdiction over the unopened allowances in their county) want's to either 1) develop it into a road or 2) deem it surplus and sell it off.

Adjacent and abutting Landowners have NO SAY in who, how, when, why or how ANY member of the public uses that "CROWN LAND". The County has jurisdiction and unless they pass a by-law on how the allowance may be used, it's "open to the public for any legal use".

(do people have to get permission to drive down the road in front of your house simply because your property abuts the street? Why would it be different just because it's not paved or hard surface?)

So the short answer is YES, he can hunt on the unopened allowance provided that 1) he follows all applicable laws/rules (hunting regs, by-laws etc) and 2) he does not trespass onto the adjoing/abutting properties even to recover game that was shot in the allowance that crossed the "line", without landowner permission.

Now, given that a unopened allowance is almost always only 66 feet wide there isn't much to play with.

The usual use for an unopened allowance is to traverse to other crown OR private land beyond the abutting private property and that is where most of the friction occurs (ie. atv's going past adjacent properties - land owners posting the allowance to try and keep them out etc.

The only sure way to keep "everyone" out, if that's what you are after, is to go to the County and make an application to buy the allowance. It can be a (somewhat) long and expensive prospect, but in the end you would own the allowance as well and you post everything.
 
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It's not even that I really want to post the land, its that this guy is "telling" me he's hunting there, rather than asking me if he can hunt there... like he is the one who spent his hard earned money on it, not me.

Yes the road allowances are 66 ft wide here, it really does bother me though that people think its their open property to hunt, but reality is, they are very unlikely only hunting the 66 ft, they are hunting the 150 yard wide stretch that is visible from the allowance and that especially deer hunting, even if they did shoot on the allowance, the likelihood of the deer falling there on the allowance is slim to nil. Thus trespassing to recover the game is the only option.
 
www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90o02?search=trespass+road+allowance

Not sure if it helps. Written in legalese.
Trespass and permitted recreational activity
(3) A person who enters premises described in subsection (4) shall be deemed to have willingly assumed all risks and is subject to the duty of care set out in subsection (1),

(a) where the entry is prohibited under the Trespass to Property Act;

(b) where the occupier has posted no notice in respect of entry and has not otherwise expressly permitted entry; or

(c) where the entry is for the purpose of a recreational activity and,

(i) no fee is paid for the entry or activity of the person, other than a benefit or payment received from a government or government agency or a non-profit recreation club or association, and

(ii) the person is not being provided with living accommodation by the occupier.

Premises referred to in subs. (3)
(4) The premises referred to in subsection (3) are,

(a) a rural premises that is,

(i) used for agricultural purposes, including land under cultivation, orchards, pastures, woodlots and farm ponds,

(ii) vacant or undeveloped premises,

(iii) forested or wilderness premises;

(b) golf courses when not open for playing;

(c) utility rights-of-way and corridors, excluding structures located thereon;

(d) unopened road allowances;

(e) private roads reasonably marked by notice as such; and

(f) recreational trails reasonably marked by notice as such. R.S.O. 1990, c. O.2, s. 4.
 
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I feel for you, my family has put up with lots of trespassing over the years. Posting signs is a good thing but they rip them down, a gate is a good idea but they shoot the lock off !! Posting and gates just keep the honest people out! Best thing you can do is report it to authorities. Let them know what's going on , best to keep them up to date on what's going on. It usually just gets worse .
 
Fire306 said:
It's not even that I really want to post the land, its that this guy is "telling" me he's hunting there, rather than asking me if he can hunt there... like he is the one who spent his hard earned money on it, not me.

Yes the road allowances are 66 ft wide here, it really does bother me though that people think its their open property to hunt, but reality is, they are very unlikely only hunting the 66 ft, they are hunting the 150 yard wide stretch that is visible from the allowance and that especially deer hunting, even if they did shoot on the allowance, the likelihood of the deer falling there on the allowance is slim to nil. Thus trespassing to recover the game is the only option.
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That's the key here. Certainly they can hunt the 66' wide road allowance but they can't retrieve downed game that happened to fall on your land without your permission. Make sure you make them aware of that fact and the fact that you will report them to to a Conservation Officer if they trespass.
 
Stupid people can only understand stupid.
Logic and their ability to think is beyond their comprehension.
So, treat them with stupid.
Do like some local land holders do, find their vehicle and flatten all four tires.
 
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