1963beretta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vaughan, Ontario
Of course you must ask for permission, but if you are denied, following the proper protocol will grant access. CO's dont need permission, court orders or warrants
Trespassers
- Thread starter Fire306
- Start date
Of course you must ask for permission, but if you are denied, following the proper protocol will grant access. CO's dont need permission, court orders or warrants
Guessing by other posts, that they could request a CO accompany them to retrieve it. Like I said though, I wouldn't deny someone from recovering their game from my property. I'm not an ass. If someone is going to shoot a deer along or even on my property, I would rather they recover it than not and have it wasted.
Just this one guy is going about things all wrong with me, (and pestering my wife about it) which is ticking me off.
I know where all my lines are and where this road allowance is. Actually just double checked everything on the weekend after finding trees cut on my property. That's another story altogether. Yes there are very good websites that show the lines, and everything very clear. My property is actually bordered by 3 roads (unopened and opened) only one line is shared with another property and it has a 100+ year old fence line that is pretty hard to argue that line, and there's no reason to argue that line with that owner.
New Camper
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lurking in the woods near SFRC.
When confronted with the bully that the guy sounds like, you wouldn't be an ass denying him entry for any reason. I wouldn't care if anyone thought me an ass: I don't have friends like this guy, and I'd rather feed the coyotes than allow him the satisfaction to continue bullying and taking advantage of me. Besides, I can find a dead deer that I know is there, faster than the coyotes...
Now if the guy wasn't a jerk, I'd have helped him recover it... This isn't even a case of compromise giving way to greater demands.I'd erect a page wire fence with a strand of barbed wire along the top, down the right of way. Stretched tight, it's a difficult fence to climb. Cut fences at minimum is vandalism, but I'd be checking the criminal code further for more serious offences relative... finding one that is indictable brings into play section 494... caught or evidence thereof, the police will arrive yesterday to pick up the malefactor. Also, I don't know where people are getting the trespass fine idea from: Last time I checked, it was criminal.
1963beretta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vaughan, Ontario
No doubt that guy is being an ass. Attitude is everything in this case. I too wouldnt want a jerk like that to be around my property. I myself have been on the opposite side of the owner/hunter problem. As a hunter, I've been blessed to have the privilege to have awesome land owners grant me permission. But I have also come across jerk off land owners who think they own everything beyond their boundaries. Most often then not, those land owners are anti-hunting. And every single time I have been involved in one of those conflicts, I have always been found to be in the right. I had a issue this year in which a land owner posted no hunting/no tresspassing signs right across my duck hunting spot, including inside my actual duck blind. On opening day goose, I was visited by a CO and OPP officer. Once all my documents were verified, I was told I was ok with everything I was doing. I was also tipped by the CO on which website to go to print off the land maps to keep in my possession that shows where the land owners land actually stops and where a right of way begins. To my surprise, the land owner was trying to claim a 200+ meters of shoreline that is 21 meters deep as his own land. When I returned for opening day duck, the CO and OPP came back once again on a call from the land owner. The OPP officer assured me that this would be that last time he would take a call from the land owner, and any further phone calls would lead to action against him. Go figure!
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I have seen it happen where OPP were involved to try and get landowner permission for hunters to recover a deer from a neighboring property. The deer was not recovered, OPP said when it comes down to it, the landowner has final say if someone is allowed in. Years ago it was always stated to do anything you can to recover the deer so I think it was adopted by people that that included trespassing to get your deer. Best you can do is be polite and explain the situation to the landowner.
Fire306 I believe you hunt the same area as me and I'm off for deer season next week if you would like me to check up on your herd while your at work
1963beretta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vaughan, Ontario
I have seen it happen where OPP were involved to try and get landowner permission for hunters to recover a deer from a neighboring property. The deer was not recovered, OPP said when it comes down to it, the landowner has final say if someone is allowed in. Years ago it was always stated to do anything you can to recover the deer so I think it was adopted by people that that included trespassing to get your deer. Best you can do is be polite and explain the situation to the landowner.
Fire306 I believe you hunt the same area as me and I'm off for deer season next week if you would like me to check up on your herd while your at work
i bet it would have been a very different story if it was a CO that was called.
Milanczar
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Unfortunately often the problem begins when you deny them access and use forceful methods like calling the authorities.
The problem gets worse when it a confrontation and worse again if their friends or family are there when they are caught by you so it embarasses the trespasser.
And then also worse if the other party knows where you live and have property (car, cottage, house, boat etc) and where you are at certains times (ie work, at another property etc).
The authorities are not going to be guarding your property 24/7 nor can you.
These situations can often result in retaliation such as vandalism which often also not just involve the trespasser but their friends and/or family and you may not know who they all are either.
Sometimes avoiding the immediate confrontation and trying to tread carefully by taking the high road can have better results and peace of mind.
There may be depending on who they are and their attitude a way of controlling them by allowing them to do so in a way you then end up limiting and being able to supervise or control.
You can try to suggest that they give you a call next time to let you know that they are there for safety. Perhaps that you may want to come along. Nothing to lose.
You may end up with a new friend or even an ally to prevent others from trespassing.
It is worth a try anyway before having to resort to more direct and forceful methods.
The problem gets worse when it a confrontation and worse again if their friends or family are there when they are caught by you so it embarasses the trespasser.
And then also worse if the other party knows where you live and have property (car, cottage, house, boat etc) and where you are at certains times (ie work, at another property etc).
The authorities are not going to be guarding your property 24/7 nor can you.
These situations can often result in retaliation such as vandalism which often also not just involve the trespasser but their friends and/or family and you may not know who they all are either.
Sometimes avoiding the immediate confrontation and trying to tread carefully by taking the high road can have better results and peace of mind.
There may be depending on who they are and their attitude a way of controlling them by allowing them to do so in a way you then end up limiting and being able to supervise or control.
You can try to suggest that they give you a call next time to let you know that they are there for safety. Perhaps that you may want to come along. Nothing to lose.
You may end up with a new friend or even an ally to prevent others from trespassing.
It is worth a try anyway before having to resort to more direct and forceful methods.
blasted_saber
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- A blue part of Ontario
Hes able to hunt the road allowance. Its essentially Crown Land.
When I worked for a land surveyor we had a rich client who would have us mark road allowances so he knew precisely where they were for accessing otherwise landlocked parcels of land or lakes with no other public access.
When I worked for a land surveyor we had a rich client who would have us mark road allowances so he knew precisely where they were for accessing otherwise landlocked parcels of land or lakes with no other public access.
1963beretta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vaughan, Ontario
This thread reminds me of a story a PH told me years ago. His account of a story in which one of his clients shot a deer that traveled into an adjacent field before passing away. The PH failed to get permission to access the other property to recover the downed deer. He then made a phone call to the authorities, that being a CO, but unfortunately the CO was not able to come due to the distance in which he found himself in. Turns out the property owner recovered the deer himself and was photographed doing so. The PH then reported what he photographed. Within the next couple days the CO returned to discover the remains of a butchered deer in the hands of an unlicensed individual. The property owner was then charged/fined with a couple of offenses including possession....or something along those lines. The meat and remains were seized to be used as evidence.
As a hunter I understand the need for being able to use the road allowances to gain access to parcels of land that are land locked. I have been questioned by land owners about trespass and explained what I was doing and showed a map with the road allowance. Being polite and calm as well as assuring them I would not be hunting the road allowance or their property allowed me to continue without delay and often with permission to hunt areas of their property. You should always be able to use and never be denied this allowance to cross over property. I would not be opposed to a policy of no hunting on road allowances of 60' 6" without permission of adjoining land owners. It is a disrespectful loophole from the landowners point of view and it would save a lot of needless confrontation.
It's just this guy being an ass and pouting because a property he used to hunt, without permission has changed hands (to me) and now he is actually being asked to not hunt there. This road allowance in question, doesn't go anywhere. It goes from one concession road to the next (short block, only about 800m). So it's not like he is using the road to access other property, the only thing it accesses is mine and the neighbours.
I agree with you Firehoser, allowances should be open to access parcels of land that are landlocked etc. but as far as hunting it between two private parcels, that you don't have permission on is just plain disrespectful.
I agree with you Firehoser, allowances should be open to access parcels of land that are landlocked etc. but as far as hunting it between two private parcels, that you don't have permission on is just plain disrespectful.
1963beretta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vaughan, Ontario
I agree with everything you say. But often times, things arent this easy. I have encountered many unreasonable land owners who post signs and/or erect fences on right of ways. You can be as cordial as you want in those instances, but you wont succeed with some of these stubborn land owners. So my point is that taking your method should always be option 1, but if it doesnt work out, know that you have every right to use a right of way or a road allowance, and that no land owner can prevent you from doing so because they think they have entitlement.
You are totally wrong. The hunter can not trespass on any posted private property under any circumstances to retrieve game that was shot outside the private property in Ontario. If you don't believe that, call the Ontario MNR Enforcement dept for clarification.
1963beretta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vaughan, Ontario
Hence why I said if they contact the appropriate authorities to request entrance and hence why I said a hunter cant just help themselves. Selective reading?
I have been lucky I guess with the people I have dealt with. Mostly farmers with an understanding of the hunting heritage. My point was if you are using the allowance to access another area be prepared with maps showing your right to be there. There are too many parcels of crown land that can only be accessed this way. This will not stop idiots from being idiots but it will put you in a better position to reason with them if you carry maps. If he wants to call the law let him. You did all you could to make him understand. I never hunt road allowances without permission of land owners adjacent. Again it is disrespectful to land owners. The point Fire306 makes is the guy is using the loophole not to gain access to other areas but to hunt his property. The guy may be legally entitled to hunt 60' 6" but it doesn't make it right. He is the A-hole on the flip side of this. Since in this case there is no access to land locked property the purchase of the road allowance may be easier to obtain. That would be my approach.
1963beretta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vaughan, Ontario
and the spare too, if it is exposed! Ada boy looky, your my kind of guy!
Haha. The problem I see with this is that it will be harder to get rid of them as they are now stuck on your property. The kleenex/sugar in the gas tank is a better option. At least this way they are able to leave your property, drive some distance and get stuck somewhere down the road for someone else to worry about
you are indeed correct, Sir. I had that wrong in my mind a while back in another thread and I was right smartly corrected as to what is what!
