Core/Jacket separation?

The Hackmaster

The Hackmaster

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All right fellow huntingnutz, time for a little detective work. I shot a Delete elk a few weeks ago and I have only now had the time to post this. While field dressing the animal, I came across remnants of the two shots I fired at it. As you can see from the picture below, I couldn't be more disappointed in the bullet performance.


IMG_0575_zpsqwsyogmh.jpg


What we have here was a 180 grain Hornady interlock fired out of a 30-06 Winchester model 70 at about 2600fps. Hand loads by yours truly. I don't have my recipe book handy, but I think[/B] it was about 52 grains H4350 with no crimp. Range was not more than 50 meters, and I can say that was the first time in my life I have not needed binoculars to count points! Anyways, Did I choose the wrong bullet for the application, or is this some kind of failure on the part of the bullet? I never recovered the core from the left bullet, but as you can see the jacket separated right down to the cannelure so I think it experienced total separation as well. Kind of odd given that most of the reviews on the internet are positive regarding this particular offering by Hornady.

Also I know that only 2 bullets fired is not a very large sample size to judge the millions that have been produced, but I think you have to agree that as hunters we don't get a lot of chances to test what works and what doesn't short of ventilating a side of beef.
 
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Well you got your elk so it wasn't that bad lol. I would say that what you experienced is probably typical of that bullet at that range. Had it been a farther shot the interlock probably wouldn't have come apart like that. One thing not mentioned was where you hit it, shoulder? Or just through ribs?
 
243win said:
Well you got your elk so it wasn't that bad lol. I would say that what you experienced is probably typical of that bullet at that range. Had it been a farther shot the interlock probably wouldn't have come apart like that. One thing not mentioned was where you hit it, shoulder? Or just through ribs?
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The one on the left went through the shoulder and the one on the right went through the ribs. I found the jacket of the right bullet on the near side of the animal and the core just under the fur on the far side.
 
im not sure what your complaint is.
looks like it delivered the payload. the interlock bullet line does not have a bonded core to jacket.
it does not say it anywhere in the description of the bullet type that the core is bonded with the jacket. it does describe a indented ring to help keep things together.
it is essentially more surface for the lead to grab onto.
on the other hand the interbod line does declare that the core is bonded to the jacket.
 
Hackmaster; Here you have the reason why C&C bullets have limitations, IMHO.
Sure, the elk was recovered, so It's hard to say these bullets "failed"
in the strictest sense of the word.
If I recover anything that resembles what you have shown us, I will not use it on game again, ever!

Can you imagine what would have happened to those bullets if they had been fired from a 300 Win Mag?

My experience with the Interlock leads me to believe that the more recently manufactured ones are not as good as the ones marketed a few years ago.
I have posted about it before, but I had a 270, 140 Interlock completely disintegrate on the rib of a Whitetail buck......with no penetration into the vitals at all.

Your charge of 52 grains of H4350 may not be making 2600 at the muzzle either. That bullet at 3100 would have most likely failed to penetrate due to breakup.

One of the reasons why I am so picky about which bullets I am shooting at big animals is what you have displayed.

Regards, Dave.
 
Eagleye said:
Hackmaster; Here you have the reason why C&C bullets have limitations, IMHO.

If I recover anything that resembles what you have shown us, I will not use it on game again, ever!
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And this here is the answer I was looking for. I kind of came to this conclusion myself but i wanted to hear someone confirm my theory.

'Boo said:
So at what point in the animals death did the bullet fail?
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I see what you mean. That being said I probably could have got the same end result with an FMJ and good shot placement but I'm looking to deliver a little more energy than that.
 
This is why I use Barnes bullets for hunting elk and moose. I also like a bullet that makes an exit wound so that there is a decent blood trail to follow. Im have seen over 50 elk go down over the last 20 years, and seldom do they drop in their tracks unless hit in the spine. Life is supposed to be a learning experience. Congratulations on getting your elk.
 
The Hackmaster said:
And this here is the answer I was looking for. I kind of came to this conclusion myself but i wanted to hear someone confirm my theory.



I see what you mean. That being said I probably could have got the same end result with an FMJ and good shot placement but I'm looking to deliver a little more energy than that.
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When I first read your original post, I thought you said they were interbonds, at which point I was like WTF?!... But upon reading others' responses, I realized it was just an interlock, and this is pretty much par for the course. Cup and Core bullets still kill game just like they used to, but the premium bullets tend to hold together a lot better which results in more reliable penetration. (except the Bergers. They are designed to go in like 6" and blow up...)
 
OP from my own very unscientific waterjug tests I found interlocks fail (separate) about 40% of the time. I tested other common brand name bullets that failed nearly every time. (failed meaning separated, as in didn't perform as supposed to even though I hunted with them for years and harvested Many animals with them. (until I did the waterjug tests ;) ))

For what it's worth, I still hunt deer with interlocks sometimes (165gr 30-06). For the most part though I use partitions except for moose where I use 400gr hawks in my 450marlin. (98% wt retention and over 200% expansion; but not as accurate at distance or with faster calibres in my own, very unscientific tests (2" Entrance hole through a thick moose's sternum at 40 yds though :rockOn: ))

Haven't tried any of the solid copper bullets so no backyard tests on them. From my testing I found bullets I KNOW will work like they're supposed to; see no reason to look further.

...........get your wife to start saving milk jugs; you'll need quite a few.

Oh, and if you get the idea to use LOTS of jello to make your own backyard ballistic jell..........it won't work, although you'll be truly amazed at how far the grape jello spreads over the clean white snow. :)
 
Suka said:
Oh, and if you get the idea to use LOTS of jello to make your own backyard ballistic jell..........it won't work, although you'll be truly amazed at how far the grape jello spreads over the clean white snow. :)
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I can only imagine. Just out of curiosity how many milk jugs do you have to line up to stop a 30-06?
 
That looks like poor bullet performance, but not "normal" for that bullet. I've not used that exact bullet on game, but I have shot a bunch of deer with smaller/lighter Hornady interlocks, they usually hold together to the cannelure and mushroom nicely, but not always. About 20% of the time they slip cores or fragment if they hit much bone. Makes no practical difference on deer, but for big stuff like elk it can mean a bullet not reaching vitals and a wounded animal if shot was in the shoulder bones. I prefer bonded/ partition/ monumental bullets for bigger critters like elk and moose for that reason, even in relatively slow cartridges like 30-06 and .308, and save the cheap Hornadys for deer and practise. People keep saying " use the most accurate bullet" on this site. I disagree! You need adequate accuracy, but what happens when the bullet is IN the animal is more important than the last 1/2" of accuracy.
 
The Hackmaster said:
I can only imagine. Just out of curiosity how many milk jugs do you have to line up to stop a 30-06?
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It was quite a few years ago but I think around 5 or 6 with a packed newspaper catchbox at the end. That was half the battle; learning how many milkjugs you needed to slow the bullet enough to catch it in the newspaper box. Luckily that's when the kids were small and we went through about a jug/day.
 
They have their place , I like them on deer in the .270 win , seems to put them down right now with a hit to the chest. If they slip the core so what.
I've shot a nice black bear and 4 deer so far this fall with interlocks and I haven't had to put a second shot into anything, (shouldered the bear with a 180 interlock in 30-06 @ 2750) furthest anythings gone is 15 feet. I'm having better luck this year anchoring them on the spot with the cheap bullets than the controlled expansion stuff I usually use.
 
I can't tell much from the left hand picture, but the right one makes me think that you hit something before the elk. Split jackets and core separating in one major piece just isn't what 30 caliber Interlocks do. The nose sheared off at an angle like that also is an indication that sometime happened. Looks like it tumbled inside the elk.

It's funny in a way that even though I'm not a real 30-06 guy, I've killed more animals with that caliber than any other due to culls I've participated in. Many of those were Hornady Interlocks. Granted, most of those were with 165s but quite a few were with 180s as well. I've also used more than a few 180s in various 300s as well. Typical results for close range hits are usually more like 50-60 percent weight retention, expansion stopped at cannulure and the serrations splitting into a ring of tiny fingers around the leading edge of the jacket.

You wouldn't happen to have another picture of the inside of the jacket?
 
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yesterday I shot a buck broadside at 50 yards. nozler 200 grn bt out of a 336 06. ballistic tips are known to be soft cup and core. I don't know because I have shot two animals and haven't recovered a bullet yet. both pass threws with a looney size hole exit hole. I don't mind cup and core bullets as long as there fairly heavy for the calibre.
 
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