Do You Support Ownership of FA (full auto) Firearms?

[Daver_II]

You'd be amazed (ie; disgusted) to see how many "hunters" are completely willing to throw us under the bus. On this forum included.

Also, I am sure we would all be amazed at how many "responsible" gun owners there are out there..... the ones contributing to the shutting down of our shooting spots, leaving garbage, and destroying club facilities...


Many "hunter only" firearm owners are understandably annoyed by other groups in the shooting sports... Hell, I am annoyed by other members in the shooting sports.

I am not writing this to get into an argument, I am a precision/tactical/black rifle guy, competitor, hunter, and avid shooter...


I personally think that our current system is ridiculous, and with proper licensing FA is fine... However, just look around a tiny bit and there is plenty of evidence that many gun owners out there are not responsible with their guns, lack knowledge, disregard safety, and though that - some of them are just dangerous.

That being said..... Others, are some of the best people I have ever met.

 

[Daver_II]

I have been on the range several times and had inexperienced shooters point live guns at me or seen them point them at others.
I have seen bullets hit the ceiling of range facilities with semiautomatics, and I have seen shooters irresponsibly maintain or handle their guns that could easily have resulted in injury or death.

I also have quite a bit of experience with FA firearms, and I can guarantee that there is an elevated level of danger - especially with inexperienced shooters - that often leads to muzzle climb, and rounds outside of safety berms and backstops.

FA firearms can also be more susceptible to runaway guns, and have other mechanical issues (like firing from the open bolt) that even experienced users can have issues with.

My point is, FA should be attainable with proper licensing/proficiency/theoretical knowledge/etc.
Allowing anyone with a PAL to buy and fire a FA? - Not a good idea.

 

[Daver_II]

Are there any recorded crimes committed with factory designed FA firearms in either Can or the U. S.? I think we would be hard pressed to even find many crimes committed with SA rifles. Criminals routinely carry a weapon prior to any crime which dictates the size of the gun. A full size weapon is just not practical.

Because the MAC-10 is so big..... or glock 18.... or .....

I understand your sentiment, I do believe that there has never been a legally owned class 3 firearm used in a crime in the US.
I can't remember where I saw that, but it was a reputable source.

 

[dirtybarry]

I handled some full auto capable FN's back in 70's but could never afford the ammo to fire them. 40 odd years later and it's bad enough paying for the 10,000+ rounds I've shot so far this year.
With a FA, I'd be living in cardboard box behind the 7-11 when I wasn't standing on the street corner with a sign that said, "will do things for ammo"

 

[Mp425]

NO - given that we do not have a 2 nd Ammendment. There is no logical reason for a person to own full auto. Most of the folks at local gun ranges are barely able to handle / safely what they have today. Where do u draw the line. An AKis alright but an mg42 is not. Crew served weapons require a great amount of training and practical practise to keep the skills. Who will train civilians. To me doing so is just more justification to ban when things go wrong.

 

[Claybuster]

Many paper shooters are equally disgusted by "killing" defenceless animals and would continue to support them even if they don't hunt.

None of the gun organizations supported the repopulation of wild turkey, the reintroduction of elk in Ontario, worked for the return of the spring bear hunt or attended council meetings in support of Sunday gun hunting. Meanwhile, the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters did all of the above and was active in developing legislation that didn't benefit hunters but was positive for pistol shooters and Swiss Arms and CZ owners.

 

[bobbynewmark]

Because the MAC-10 is so big..... or glock 18.... or .....

I understand your sentiment, I do believe that there has never been a legally owned class 3 firearm used in a crime in the US.
I can't remember where I saw that, but it was a reputable source.

My feeling is that it doesn't matter whether the gun is legally owned or not.. When the public sees and hears of a public shoot-out with full auto weapons, and the amount of damage possible in a short time it becomes a permanent stain... Like the LA bank robbery shoot-out in '97 where they used illegally modded Polytech type 56 (AK) guns amongst other things, and COMPLETELY overwhelmed the police for a long time until killed. The cops only had 9mm and .38 spcl with some 12g shotties as well..

Then there is the other black market guns you see in police evidence lockers.. UZI's, MAC's, STEN's, TEC-9's and the like, generally in the hands of bikers and street gangs. I think the potential for mayhem scares the crap out of people.

As much as I would LOVE to own one legally I think it may be the best we could hope for to grandfather the current owners and allow them to shoot at special ranges, and rescind the prohibition of converted auto's which is idiotic (considering how the RCMP themselves claim so many semi's are easy to convert!) and register them as semi-auto once and for all. You would always have the option of permanently converting a rifle to semi, thus making it restricted only - BUT you lose your ability to own full auto (if that was the only FA in your possession). That SHOULD be reasonable enough to make everyone but the extremists on each side content. It requires reason and compromise by both sides.

Just an idea anyway... I have 12.6 but just missed the other ones... bought an Norc sks instead of a $200 FAL back in '91.... DOH!!!!

FA guns were done in in '79 when I was in primary school... missed that one too

 

[bobbynewmark]

Are there any recorded crimes committed with factory designed FA firearms in either Can or the U. S.? I think we would be hard pressed to even find many crimes committed with SA rifles. Criminals routinely carry a weapon prior to any crime which dictates the size of the gun. A full size weapon is just not practical.

the guy that shot the politician assistant (??) in Quebec had an cz858 style rifle

the Borque a-hole who shot the rcmp officers down east had an m-305

a-hole Lepine (aka Gamil Gharbi) in Montreal at Ecole Polytechnique murdered all those folks with a mini-14

Kimveer Singh Gill at Dawson college, in Montreal

just a few.. you may want to hone your argument about the semi-auto's

 

[bobbynewmark]

mispost

 

[bobbynewmark]

You are into banning.

Banned except for specific places. Currently they are only banned except for certain people who owned them before the ban. If you are ok with limiting them to certain places, are you ok with banning them except for specific people as they currently are?

A gun, is a gun, is a gun.

well that is your opinion, and you are entitled to it.

my opinion is that I don't want to be shooting next to some strange fellow with questionable training and FA equipment, in very close proximity to my body should he or any of his guests lose control at 600-1200+ rounds per minute.

It is NOT a ban to say you have to use it in a specific area.. that is a childish assertion. Are racing cars 'banned' ? Are pistols 'banned'? I have no problems with having licenced places you can shoot 'house guns' like in Aizona either.. I just think the risks outweigh the benefits of any RPAL holder having a personal full automatic weapon.

you argue like a petulant child

 

[Sqr]

NO - given that we do not have a 2 nd Ammendment. There is no logical reason for a person to own full auto. Most of the folks at local gun ranges are barely able to handle / safely what they have today. Where do u draw the line. An AKis alright but an mg42 is not. Crew served weapons require a great amount of training and practical practise to keep the skills. Who will train civilians. To me doing so is just more justification to ban when things go wrong.

With the proper schooling and training anything can be safe eg: flying, Scuba diving, rigging or any other activity. I understand where your coming from as some shooters are buffoons however I feel I should have the choice.

 

[Sqr]

the guy that shot the politician assistant (??) in Quebec had an cz858 style rifle

the Borque a-hole who shot the rcmp officers down east had an m-305

a-hole Lepine (aka Gamil Gharbi) in Montreal at Ecole Polytechnique murdered all those folks with a mini-14

Kimveer Singh Gill at Dawson college, in Montreal

just a few.. you may want to hone your argument about the semi-auto's

The key word is "many". Maybe I should have reworded the post to relative to hand guns. Not even close in numbers.

 

[Sqr]

My feeling is that it doesn't matter whether the gun is legally owned or not.. When the public sees and hears of a public shoot-out with full auto weapons, and the amount of damage possible in a short time it becomes a permanent stain... Like the LA bank robbery shoot-out in '97 where they used illegally modded Polytech type 56 (AK) guns amongst other things, and COMPLETELY overwhelmed the police for a long time until killed. The cops only had 9mm and .38 spcl with some 12g shotties as well..

Then there is the other black market guns you see in police evidence lockers.. UZI's, MAC's, STEN's, TEC-9's and the like, generally in the hands of bikers and street gangs. I think the potential for mayhem scares the crap out of people.

As much as I would LOVE to own one legally I think it may be the best we could hope for to grandfather the current owners and allow them to shoot at special ranges, and rescind the prohibition of converted auto's which is idiotic (considering how the RCMP themselves claim so many semi's are easy to convert!) and register them as semi-auto once and for all. You would always have the option of permanently converting a rifle to semi, thus making it restricted only - BUT you lose your ability to own full auto (if that was the only FA in your possession). That SHOULD be reasonable enough to make everyone but the extremists on each side content. It requires reason and compromise by both sides.

Just an idea anyway... I have 12.6 but just missed the other ones... bought an Norc sks instead of a $200 FAL back in '91.... DOH!!!!

FA guns were done in in '79 when I was in primary school... missed that one too

.......and you are using the identical argument that ever uneducated anti is using for hand guns. So you are saying that if you do not agree I should own a FA I should forfeit my small arms? No difference.

 

[Sqr]

Because the MAC-10 is so big..... or glock 18.... or .....

I understand your sentiment, I do believe that there has never been a legally owned class 3 firearm used in a crime in the US.
I can't remember where I saw that, but it was a reputable source.

Again the uncontrollability of the said weapons make them undesirable to most of the gang bangers and punks. They are so expensive to obtain illegaly by most criminals they migrate to pistols or shotguns.

If I could obtain one a Glock 18 would be my choice.

 

[grinder08]

As a former military user of full automatic weapons I am struggling with this one.

First I thought why not with appropriate training. Then

I thought full auto is inherently more dangerous than semi auto due to difficulty in maintaining control.

But then I thought so what proper training and use on an appropriately designed range, is it really any different from letting someone drive a Ferrari or Lamborghini. Not for hunting on either full auto or burst. Not humane for the animal as it is very difficult to shoot accurately and there will inevitably be more stray bullets flying abound.

Final answer Yes

 

[Rapier46]

How could anyone say no?

 

[jackrabbit000]

Resurrected a 3 yr old thread. Good to see Blaxsun's name on it though.

 

[thepolinator]

Not voting because non of those options are acceptable.

 

[Jerry Champagne]

I voted mabey. I have fired full auto lots before and on %90 of the weapons people are going to buy it's absolutely useless besides pure fun. And IF we were to allow people to purchase them not everyone who signs up should get one or could handle one. If it were legal I probably would not buy one unless I could get an MP5 and that an entire different can of worms.

 

[sclifford]

I voted no, mainly because I could see that it would actually bring out a bigger wave of gun control (stolen auto firearm used more in crimes, uncontrolled accidental shooting at range ect.) I think it could only give a darker, more headaches to the responsible owners.

HOWEVER, I would like to see them made available for us to be able to shoot sometimes. IDK how, but like maybe days at a military base where civilians are allowed to have a chance for some training and try out. Or gun stores able to have them for rent at their ranges (like they have in Las Vegas). No I have not thought out how the logistics would work, but would be nice a few times a year throughout the country to have the opportunity to try it without going south and paying high fees to do this.

If they did become legal, I am not sure I would even buy one! geez ammo is expensive enough in a semi! Also I am not saying because I say no that no one should have the opportunity to own one (as this always gets spined around because I said no, I want to restrict everyone), I just don't see a good outcome as a whole community for them.