Threw caution to the wind and bought a new double rifle
- Thread starter Ardent
- Start date
nowarningshot
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Only time i saw one of these things, i thought it was a little 410 SXS. Not big rifles, and i would think, 99% of guys would fire it if re-chambered to something hotter....once. Some online stores have had these on sale for the high $600's-800's. I think Lake Huron or Gagnon sports...that was years ago. Probably clearing them out as i think its a low sales item....pretty specialty.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
No need to hot rod the .45-70 by chambering it out. It will do the job on anything that walks within sensible distances with lead boolits sized fer the game.
Very true, there's nothing 500grs at 1300-1800fps cannot kill, though there's a great deal it cannot drop in its tracks as compared to an equally placed hit from say a .375 H&H at 2,600fps, or a .300 at 2,900, etc.. That shock is what I'm after, I would never hunt with this (that's not saying I don't think it's suitable), I'm just playing dress up for the idea of "beatable" guns for guiding. Odds are by far I'll never carry it my SS Model 70 will get the nod, but I enjoy imagining possibilities for my particular applications. I'll experiment with it and hope to be surprised, but sure won't count on it.
OMG I DIED LAUGHING!!! HA HA HA
Cheers
Jay
P.S. Ardent, I have guns ranging from 'free' up to a couple grand, but that H&H you have is something very few of us get to experience, let alone OWN! Enjoy them all!
- Location
- Central AB
My current load in my Baikal is a 485gr cast at 1640fps. Wouldn't want to go much hotter, those barrels are thin, and with a light gun, recoil gets stout fairly quick. Definitely fun guns and good value for the money.
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
Ross & his .280 got the "kill by high velocity shock" ball rolling for adventurous hunters way back. Only problem was, most all of them had no clue of ballistics or experience in the field other than what they had read about. Couple this with bullets that shattered on impact on big game led to many graves in foreign lands such as Africa & Asia back then.
Truth is, a properly constructed bullet for the game intended need not be driven to speeds that folks are led to believe. Yes, the .375 H&H is a dandy rifle for everything from squirrels to elephant under good conditions & using loads to suit each, but it is not a "shock stopper" as in the realm of the Weatherby magnums & such.
Yes, the Baikal makes for a beauty guide gun in tight quarters and I would own one if it was a hammer gun fer sure.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
We agree on many things, though I do believe shock starts at around 2,300fps impacts, 2,400 to say more confidently going by culling truckloads of deer sized animals. At ranges a .30-06 dropped below that threshold (200-250 yards) animal reactions change noticeably. Likewise, I'd loaded a bunch of "nitro express" speed .375 H&H light loads for the culling work and was taking the close game while the .30-06 reached out, and I rarely saw the .30-06's effect of flops on 1/2 or so of the animals hit. Indeed there's bullet performance changes around that threshold too, and that could be most of it on its own. All I know is for my favoured bullet types I need to hit at 2,300, preferably 2,400, or greater to see the effect I seek. Much as I hate to admit it I've become a fan of speed, and to be fair I consider the 7x57 and .375 "speedy" in this realm, .300 mags are ultra speedy.
Yep, totally unfair to ask that of this little rifle and it doesn't detract from it. I'll happily play with it and even maybe use it for my own sitka blacktail in the rain, simply because I don't need to baby it. I've gone off toptic and forgive me! Look forward to shooting this little Russian tractor.
Yep, totally unfair to ask that of this little rifle and it doesn't detract from it. I'll happily play with it and even maybe use it for my own sitka blacktail in the rain, simply because I don't need to baby it. I've gone off toptic and forgive me! Look forward to shooting this little Russian tractor.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Thanks Jay but truth be told what you own means nothing, just what you do with it, and that doesn't have to be extravagant! I very much admire a well used .30-30 hunting amongst family and friends (using the rifle my grandfather gave me as an example) and the person who wields it as much as the owner of a .700 Nitro Express... Actually I admire the humble and happy .30-30 and its owner more! Pricey guns become as much an ordeal as a pleasure, afraid to leave it in camp or truck, afraid to check it on a plane, afraid to use it in the rain... I see it as art, that functions, but art has a limited place in the hunt. Don't get me wrong I love it, but it won't be mine forever, I'll try and use it in some fair weather and make some memories with it. For now it's far below my .30-30 on warmth and smile factor when picked up for that very lack of memories brought around partly by its value and the need to protect it. I'm rambling.
Thanks Jay but truth be told what you own means nothing, just what you do with it, and that doesn't have to be extravagant! I very much admire a well used .30-30 hunting amongst family and friends (using the rifle my grandfather gave me as an example) and the person who wields it as much as the owner of a .700 Nitro Express... Actually I admire the humble and happy .30-30 and its owner more! Pricey guns become as much an ordeal as a pleasure, afraid to leave it in camp or truck, afraid to check it on a plane, afraid to use it in the rain... I see it as art, that functions, but art has a limited place in the hunt. Don't get me wrong I love it, but it won't be mine forever, I'll try and use it in some fair weather and make some memories with it. For now it's far below my .30-30 on warmth and smile factor when picked up for that very lack of memories brought around partly by its value and the need to protect it. I'm rambling.
That's deep!!! I found the one in the EE you were talking about...its sold...Now I must carry forward with my piteous peasant life as a simple humble man with out a cheap double rifle to fondle on a cold winters night. Or you could sell me yours and the world shall rejoice,the sun will rise again and birds every where shall fly freely...( I woulda made a really cool 60"s hippy!!)
Slam a 400-500 gr bullet thru the front shoulders of any north American game and the results will be immediate even at a lowly 1200 fps
I haven't shot grizzly or buffalo like you have but the old 45/70 has taken many over the years.
I had a buddy shooting a metal burn barrel full of water with a speedy 270. He thought it was amazing because a little bit of water splashed out each shot and it left a 1/2" exit hole. He laughed when I said I brought my 45/70. Said that old thing couldn't catch up to a deer. I hit that burn barrel dead center with a Remington 405 gr sp at about 1500 fps. It almost knocked it over on impact and left a 4" gapping hole out the other side. It might not have the shock and awe but it smashes heavy bones and let's a lot of light in to the critter
I think you might just surprise yourself with the baikal.
If nothing else its fun to watch the guys at the range run when you drop the 45/70 rounds into it and say hey watch this. Around here not to many ppl have ever seen a sxs rifle and they all think it's a 410
I haven't shot grizzly or buffalo like you have but the old 45/70 has taken many over the years.
I had a buddy shooting a metal burn barrel full of water with a speedy 270. He thought it was amazing because a little bit of water splashed out each shot and it left a 1/2" exit hole. He laughed when I said I brought my 45/70. Said that old thing couldn't catch up to a deer. I hit that burn barrel dead center with a Remington 405 gr sp at about 1500 fps. It almost knocked it over on impact and left a 4" gapping hole out the other side. It might not have the shock and awe but it smashes heavy bones and let's a lot of light in to the critter
I think you might just surprise yourself with the baikal.
If nothing else its fun to watch the guys at the range run when you drop the 45/70 rounds into it and say hey watch this. Around here not to many ppl have ever seen a sxs rifle and they all think it's a 410
If u want the speed with 4570 must drop down weight such as Barnes 250g that will go 2300-2400
I believe this are too light for caliber and prefer 350g min. Current use the 405g for moose elk and had
Just as good results as any 338-375 which I use mostly but the range had been limited to under 150y
Believe the wide frontal of bullet gives better killing effect than should be. One looks at the 3030 and bullets it
Uses as it seems to kill better than it should. One looks at other cartridges from the past very few have made it not alone 150yr and that is because it still works
I believe this are too light for caliber and prefer 350g min. Current use the 405g for moose elk and had
Just as good results as any 338-375 which I use mostly but the range had been limited to under 150y
Believe the wide frontal of bullet gives better killing effect than should be. One looks at the 3030 and bullets it
Uses as it seems to kill better than it should. One looks at other cartridges from the past very few have made it not alone 150yr and that is because it still works
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Yep that's her, it may become half a floatplane someday for the outfitting area. Not in a rush, there aren't many buyers fishing for Royals, so imagine it'll be a couple years. It's free to hang it out there, so figure why not, had one offer already which was more than I expected.
- Location
- Lumby Town!!
Haha, that'a got to be the greatest collection of doubles...ever! anywhere! Royal-Merkel-Thug. I thinks that's cool Ardent. I've come so close to buying one of those things....For some reason I want the 3006 with 220gr round nosers
Looking forward to the review...
Fly safe
Looking forward to the review...
Fly safe
longbranch*
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Victoria,BC.
The Canadian Tire in Duncan must be an agent for Holland&Holland I guess because I notice one in the cabinet Friday...har,har.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Well shoulda let me know, woulda put it in with your M70 to play with! Set up for .45-70? I won't be shooting it for awhile you might as well be playing with it.
Some jobs and circumstances require a gentleman, and some are unsuitable for a gentleman to soil his hands with, and as such are the purview of a thug.
I have seen the Baikal referred to as the AK47 of double rifles which oddly enough has more truth to it than is apparent, since I believe the designer of the rifle was Yevhen Popovych who also worked on the AK variants (i.e AK 74) which where designed for the 5.45-mm cartridge. It seems quite a few people who collect double rifles also have the Baikal Artimeda 45/70 who prefer to use it in difficult conditions, so that there expensive doubles do not get damaged.
http://www.direct-hunting.ru/weapon/smoothbore/583-drilling-lancaster
http://www.direct-hunting.ru/weapon/smoothbore/583-drilling-lancaster
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
While I seem to fall in that hypothetical bunch, I don't know of any other owners of nice doubles with a Baikal- and I know a good few nice double owners. The theory is sound however, I like having a double cheap enough to abuse and not care if it rusts or falls in a river out of a tipped boat. I see doubles as work guns and in the dry climate of Africa a Holland & Holland can be- but not here on the coast.
