Sako Finnbear L61R vs AIII vs AV

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Omenator

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I'm looking for some information regarding the differences between the Sako L61R, AIII & AV.
I found some info stating that the biggest difference came when they went from AIII to AV and made the tang longer. It sounds like the trigger changed and there was a switch to a two part triggerguard as well, but not sure when that happened (later in the AV product cycle I think). As far as I can tell, it was just a name change when going from the L61R to the AIII, but I think the bolt shroud changed sometime around this period as well. I know there was an AIV model made for a bit, but I think that was strictly a Safari in 375 H&H.
Here is one of the links I was using for reference:
http://www.sako.fi/sites/default/files/SakoOldmodelsNumbering.pdf

I was originally questioning how Sako could offer the 375 H&H and equal length (3.6" or so COL) magnum cartridges on what I thought was a 30-06 (3.34" or so COL) action, but I saw a statement that all the long actions Sako produced were made with a 3.65" magazine box. Would this be correct and what did they do to keep the 30-06 length cartridges from sliding around?

I've never owned one of these and have only handled a couple for a few minutes, so was hoping you guys could help clarify.
 
I was originally planning on finding a belted magnum Sako long action and converting it to 375 Ruger, but if my suspicions are correct and all the long action Sakos came with a 3.65" magazine box, then I may as well just buy one of the 375 H&H Sakos as the 375 Ruger will not be any shorter or lighter.
If my above statement about all the long actions being of the same action/magazine length, did Sako use a different ejector mechanism on the 30-06 length cartridges?
 
I have owned Sako's for a long time and have 2x243, 270, 308, 2x30/06, 338 and 375h&h... I still am unsure what is what with the various nomenclature they use. I can quickly identify my Sako 75's from previous models and a medium action from a longer "magnum" action etc but a lot of the subtleties really confuse me...and frankly I think they confuse Sako too as they seem unable to produce a simple document that describes the models and their unique characteristics.
 
AP said:
I have owned Sako's for a long time and have 2x243, 270, 308, 2x30/06, 338 and 375h&h... I still am unsure what is what with the various nomenclature they use. I can quickly identify my Sako 75's from previous models and a medium action from a longer "magnum" action etc but a lot of the subtleties really confuse me...and frankly I think they confuse Sako too as they seem unable to produce a simple document that describes the models and their unique characteristics.
Click to expand...

http://www.sako.fi/sako-old-models
 
ben777lemay said:
http://www.sako.fi/sako-old-models
Click to expand...
great and where exactly would one find a Sako Alll manual or the posters AV marked 25/06 .... Would it be the in the manuals S491 (short) M591 (medium) or L691 (long) OR in the L461 L579 or L61R also short medium and long despite that they all have a"L" suffix?!? And numbers all over the place! Makes no sense. And further exasperating when you have a spare Sako stock as I do and nobody including Stoeger seems to know what model it is for other than "well its definitely for a long action!" .... Your link is helpful if you go to the parts diagram and have your rifle in pieces .... But for the average guy...its just a confusing mess.... In fact ask 3 "experts" on which model of Sako was the streamline bolt shroud introduced and you will get 3 different answers. Ask them if they know what model( for part numbers ) a Finnsport 2700 was ...and what calibers they came in and you will get a blank stare. What length the mannlicher carbine barrels where? At least two answers... They could do a lot better job I think.
 
Omenator, My two AV rifles, a 25-06 Finnbear and custom barrelled .35 Whelen Classic have identical actions with the exception of some blued parts on the bolt on the Classic that are white on the Finnbear. But that may have happened when the barrel was blued. The L61R 30-06 seems pretty much identical, the tang is indeed a touch shorter but I did not pull the stocks to inspect the triggers. Extractors are the same on all three of mine, but none of them are belted magnums. All have the same length of magazine box. 3.56" according to my calipers measuring the magazine opening at the floor plate. I think someone just switched the 6 and 5 in the "3.65 inch" information you received in error. The magazines are roomy for 30-06 and related cartridges, but i could not quite place a .375H&H loaded cartridge ( Rem 270 RN factory load) in the magazine. It hung up just a bit. My .35 Whelen weighs a bit over 9 lbs with scope, I would not want it to be lighter for comfortable shooting. I agree that you should just go ahead and buy a .375H&H Sako rather than convert one to .375 Ruger, mainly because savings in weight will cost you in shooting comfort. And the H&H is never a bad choice.
 
@Longwalker: Thanks for checking the magazine length on your rifles. Was there anything in the magazine making it shorter? I've seen it where the magazine is sized to for the 375 H&H length cartridges and has a plug in the rear for use with shorter cartridges.
 
I am not sure what they did to keep the 30-06 cartridges from sliding around but I am sure that they did. I can also attest to the length of magazine well. Having loaded some 180gr scirroco 2 in my 300 winmag, I would have been able to cycle then through at 3.581 easily, instead gave them an .050 jump. Tempted to loaded up some 220 or 230 gr pills just to see how they do, some much room for powder
 
Now I'm wondering what Sako did to fit the 375 H&H on these actions. I'm going to guess they lengthened the magazine box by either going a bit to rear or front (or both) and changed the ejector/bolt stop for a bit more bolt travel. Without having them side by side it'd be really hard to tell though.
 
I no longer own any Sakos, but I am fairly certain that the A-series guns were all made simultaneously in five (!) different action sizes, ranging from AI (.222-size) all the way up to AV (full-length magnum size). This was always one of their big selling points; instead of making only one action size, or at most two (long and short) like most of their competitors, they trumpeted the fact that they made sizes that perfectly matched the cartridge choice of the buyer. I know that I had AI, AIII and AV actions and they were quite different.

I think the L61 guns predated the A-series, but not sure...I had one once upon a time many years ago, but it too is long gone.
 
jjohnwm said:
I no longer own any Sakos, but I am fairly certain that the A-series guns were all made simultaneously in five (!) different action sizes, ranging from AI (.222-size) all the way up to AV (full-length magnum size). This was always one of their big selling points; instead of making only one action size, or at most two (long and short) like most of their competitors, they trumpeted the fact that they made sizes that perfectly matched the cartridge choice of the buyer. I know that I had AI, AIII and AV actions and they were quite different.

I think the L61 guns predated the A-series, but not sure...I had one once upon a time many years ago, but it too is long gone.
Click to expand...

I think you may be right, but why then are there 30-06 AVs?
The link I referenced earlier noted it was just a stamping change going from AIII to AIV to AV, so I'm confused. I do know that the AI was 223 REM class and the AII was 308 WIN class, but it gets sketchy as the AIII was chambered in everything from 30-06 class to 375 H&H class cartridges. I'd like to see a AIII 30-06 next to a AIII 375 H&H to figure out what the difference is (has to be some difference, 30-06 COL is 3.34" and 375 H&H is 3.60"). As Longwalker took the effort and measured the mag box length on his rifles, you're not going to feed a 375 H&H out of a 3.56" mag box without some issues.
 
I heard the five different action sizes too, from what I recall it was: 223 REM class (micro), 308 WIN class (short), 30-06 class (medium), 7mm REM MAG class (medium-magnum) and 375 H&H class (long-magnum). I even heard the bolt diameters were smaller on the non-magnum vs magnum cartridges, which explains the medium and medium-magnum which share the same COL, so the receiver wouldn't have to be a different length.
It's all a bit muddled, wish the manufactures would keep proper records.
 
Omenator said:
I think you may be right, but why then are there 30-06 AVs?
The link I referenced earlier noted it was just a stamping change going from AIII to AIV to AV, so I'm confused. I do know that the AI was 223 REM class and the AII was 308 WIN class, but it gets sketchy as the AIII was chambered in everything from 30-06 class to 375 H&H class cartridges. I'd like to see a AIII 30-06 next to a AIII 375 H&H to figure out what the difference is (has to be some difference, 30-06 COL is 3.34" and 375 H&H is 3.60"). As Longwalker took the effort and measured the mag box length on his rifles, you're not going to feed a 375 H&H out of a 3.56" mag box without some issues.
Click to expand...

Are there AV's in .30-06? I've never noticed that, the Sakos I've looked at always seemed to have the appropriate A-number for the chambering. Is it possible that as Sako neared the end of the A-series production, they perhaps screwed some barrels chambered in extremely popular cartridges like the '06 onto actions that were larger than necessary just to use up the remaining inventory of parts?
 
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