Best FClass Barrels

Peter,

While I originally had much respect for you and your business, I'm starting to waiver due to these threads of yours..

If its for information and discussion, etc. Great!, however your posts seem to have a second meaning, which is almost to prove a point in your favour. I may be wrong, but please correct me if that's the case. Just appears to be an odd thing to do when it's not warranted?

Ie, the Sightron scopes, NF scope warrant, "smuggled scopes", your last post regarding barrels, etc.

Let people decide for themselves. They have all the information you posted by accessing through the same public forums.

For refence to your scopes, can you comment why Nightforce has had a drastic decline in long range competition shooting where others are gaining solid ground?

I guess this means NF are no longer good... =)

BTW, I didn't even look at the results, but I KNOW what the results will say. It's a barrel you sell is my guess.

I have a Jury barrel, because I'm supporting a quality barrel manufacure made right here in Alberta, and whom is down to earth enough that I can line up against him in a competition and get my ass handed to me, then he'll answer all our lengthy questions about manufacturing, myths, etc. Even showing pictures and videos of his set-up. Something that intriques my mech. engineering side.
 
shabby!, won't respond to all the points but please look at results as about 95% of FClass competitors use Nightforce, but this is supposed to be about barrels.

The best barrel I ever owned was a Madco on a Wichita 1375 which would shoot 2" groups at 600 yards with the Sierra 155.
It is interesting and see that Brux is doing very well and are to be commended. Additionally, on their site they do not say they are as good as Bartlein or Krieger, but let the results speak for themselves. In addition to Jury, who is by all accounts is a good fellow to deal with, there is a NB gunsmith making cut-rifled barrels that do very well. He has the attention of Boot Obermeyer, the Master barrel maker of our time. We do wish him luck and it is worth noting that his barrels are cut-rifled, as are Krieger, Bartlein and Brux, the tops in FClass, BR and elsewhere.

We don't sell Madco, Brux, Obermeyer, McLennan, Jury, Gaillard or J.C Gautreau's barrels but wish them all well!

So, why do cut-rifle barrels dominate the most demanding-as-regards-accuracy shooting disciplines?

Regards,

Peter
 
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Shibby! said:
Peter,

While I originally had much respect for you and your business, I'm starting to waiver due to these threads of yours..

If its for information and discussion, etc. Great!, however your posts seem to have a second meaning, which is almost to prove a point in your favour. I may be wrong, but please correct me if that's the case. Just appears to be an odd thing to do when it's not warranted?

Ie, the Sightron scopes, NF scope warrant, "smuggled scopes", your last post regarding barrels, etc.

Let people decide for themselves. They have all the information you posted by accessing through the same public forums.

For refence to your scopes, can you comment why Nightforce has had a drastic decline in long range competition shooting where others are gaining solid ground?

I guess this means NF are no longer good... =)

BTW, I didn't even look at the results, but I KNOW what the results will say. It's a barrel you sell is my guess.

I have a Jury barrel, because I'm supporting a quality barrel manufacure made right here in Alberta, and whom is down to earth enough that I can line up against him in a competition and get my ass handed to me, then he'll answer all our lengthy questions about manufacturing, myths, etc. Even showing pictures and videos of his set-up. Something that intriques my mech. engineering side.
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You need a snickers dude. Peter is a good guy and he's posting a legitimate article referencing the equipment used in fclass shooting. Maybe it's not that easy for some of us to find info like that. And whether or not it's directed toward selling some of his fine product, who cares? Selling this stuff is his business and he's a business sponser.
 
Thanks ri4930. Really would like to know technically why cut-rifled barrels dominate? The very clever barrel maker-machinist Rob McLennan said to me that he started making cut-rifled barrels are he was getting beat with his button-rifled barrels.

Would be interesting to know more about Brux.

Regards,

Peter
 
I have a couple of robs barrels, and I really like them. I just seasoned my first bartlein, I hope it's as good. Rob makes excellent stuff and I feel good supporting a local guy, even if he is a little crusty.
 
I don't think a lot of weight can be given to a brand of barrel, optic or any component. Not knowing anything about the shooter(s) I'm sure regardless of equipment they choose and the nature of Fclass they would have a pretty good chance of excelling with any top grade equipment. Yet top grade equipment isn't going to help a mediocre shooter very much.
 
Completely out of line Shibby. Don't know what your deal is. I've done business with Peter for years now and he is THE stand up guy of our sport. Thank you for your informative articles and keep up the good work and great prices!
 
So, why do cut-rifle barrels dominate the most demanding-as-regards-accuracy shooting disciplines?

Regards,

Peter[/QUOTE]
Extremely difficult to nearly impossible to make a consistent positive engagement with a straight or a gain twist on button barrels ,that coupled with the crappy steel we now get makes winning with a button barrel hard. Not impossible but hard, Shilen have been working hard to get back in the br game and have turned some good barrels of late , bartliens and Krieger still dominate sbr , One of the best barrels I have had was one of Rob's ,I am shooting bartliens and kriegers while I wait for more,
 
I think its great to see lists of equipment like that, it can be hard to get good data in this sport and any little bit helps.
When a lot of the top shooters settle on very similar stuff, its probably worth assuming that they tested a lot of things and settled on what they got the best results out of.
There's a few brands of equipment on there I never heard of, worth a little more research when time allows.
 
peterdobson said:
Thanks ri4930. Really would like to know technically why cut-rifled barrels dominate? The very clever barrel maker-machinist Rob McLennan said to me that he started making cut-rifled barrels are he was getting beat with his button-rifled barrels.

Would be interesting to know more about Brux.

Regards,

Peter
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Peter,
My guess is the fact that there is residual stresses left in button rifled barrels ,even after stress relieving, that show up in the latter part of long strings of fire at the distances we shoot.it takes a perfectly stress free barrel to shoot a 20 shot string vertical free.this would be even more prevelant when guys are campaigning wsm,s or saum,s due to extreme amounts of barrel heat.
 
T 280 Ackley as does Pesky AB comments.

To state our position on shooting, we are glad that Brux is doing so well. Top makers in any field can become complacent and need competition.

Best regards,

Peter
 
I did not hear of any Brux barrels at the nationals or worlds, they do not seem to be very prevalent in sbr yet , may be something I need to look at and test
 
From what I can understand is that when you cut rifle a barrel you can control the uniformity of the twist rate which means it is the exact same all the way down the barrel. There are absolutely no stress induced in the barrel when cutting .
The rate of twist can not be as accurately controlled when buttoning although very good barrels are made this way to.

Cut rifling sure seems to be making a comeback with a lot of makers using the process very successfully , it is much more time consuming than pulling a button but at the same time no need to stress relieving after rifling .

Uniformity of twist rate is very important to accuracy in a barrel or as long as it is faster at the muzzle end as is such in gain twist.
 
Since I do sell top tier barrels using both methods, I will throw in my 2 cents.

In F class, there is a perception that Cut rifle barrels are more stable and last longer. Top shooters have had success with the better cut rifled manf and thus other shooters follow suit. Bartlien has done really well in the last few years when Krieger was unobtanium (long story) and top shooters used them cause that was all they could get.

With success, some have stayed and of course done well. Great... and then other top shooters will use brand X and win... then the pack will move that way. There is a lot of herd thinking wrt to competition shooting. Sometimes it is well justified. other times, more fashion then fact.... as much as the top half of the roster at the US Nationals F class competition used cut rifled barrels..

So did the bottom half :)

I have podiumed with both styles of rifling as have others. If I could pin down cut or button was ALWAYS better, I would focus on that. So far, it depends... and there are pros and cons to either set up.

When you look at other disciplines, other styles of manf make it to the top... so either style of rifling can and does make superb barrels.

What type of rifling dominates 50BR shooting?

What excites me is that some barrel makers are doing some very interesting and innovative experimentation to address various concerns for sports like F class and PRS. I have had the pleasure of working with both Shilen and Krieger to help with some R&D over the last couple of years.

Some ideas show alot of promise.. others were well, not such good ideas. But innovation is the only way to move things along

With so much going on with external ballistics, these barrel makers are looking at internal ballistics to see if they can give those slippery bullets a boost. Eventually, there will be subtle but important changes. Some will try it, maybe do well, others will follow.

All I know is that in competition shooting, NOTHING is ever static and nothing dominates for long....

We all win..

Jerry
 
coyote said:
From what I can understand is that when you cut rifle a barrel you can control the uniformity of the twist rate which means it is the exact same all the way down the barrel. There are absolutely no stress induced in the barrel when cutting .
The rate of twist can not be as accurately controlled when buttoning although very good barrels are made this way to.

Cut rifling sure seems to be making a comeback with a lot of makers using the process very successfully , it is much more time consuming than pulling a button but at the same time no need to stress relieving after rifling .

Uniformity of twist rate is very important to accuracy in a barrel or as long as it is faster at the muzzle end as is such in gain twist.
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That's the theory anyways but that is not the real world case every single time. All the testing I have done and shared in, has really opened more questions then it has resolved BUT that is how we get a better understanding on how things work.

Sorry, cut rifling does impart some stress to the barrel. All I will say at this time is that stress is different from that which is induced by button rifling. It still has an affect on barrel stability has to be addressed.

YMMV.

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
Since I do sell top tier barrels using both methods, I will throw in my 2 cents.

In F class, there is a perception that Cut rifle barrels are more stable and last longer. Top shooters have had success with the better cut rifled manf and thus other shooters follow suit. Bartlien has done really well in the last few years when Krieger was unobtanium (long story) and top shooters used them cause that was all they could get.

With success, some have stayed and of course done well. Great... and then other top shooters will use brand X and win... then the pack will move that way. There is a lot of herd thinking wrt to competition shooting. Sometimes it is well justified. other times, more fashion then fact.... as much as the top half of the roster at the US Nationals F class competition used cut rifled barrels..

So did the bottom half :)

I have podiumed with both styles of rifling as have others. If I could pin down cut or button was ALWAYS better, I would focus on that. So far, it depends... and there are pros and cons to either set up.

When you look at other disciplines, other styles of manf make it to the top... so either style of rifling can and does make superb barrels.

What type of rifling dominates 50BR shooting?

What excites me is that some barrel makers are doing some very interesting and innovative experimentation to address various concerns for sports like F class and PRS. I have had the pleasure of working with both Shilen and Krieger to help with some R&D over the last couple of years.

Some ideas show alot of promise.. others were well, not such good ideas. But innovation is the only way to move things along

With so much going on with external ballistics, these barrel makers are looking at internal ballistics to see if they can give those slippery bullets a boost. Eventually, there will be subtle but important changes. Some will try it, maybe do well, others will follow.

All I know is that in competition shooting, NOTHING is ever static and nothing dominates for long....

We all win..

Jerry
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some very good points there Jerry , only a couple of things to clarify (and this pertains to sbr ,I cant speak for f class) , there is sometimes a herd mentality at the mid pack level in sbr, that is not the case at the top , top guys will test many brands frequently and pick out the best stuff to go to a big shoot , then next year they will do it all again. equipment lists are not the be all end all but they are a good barometer of what is trending yearly ,the reason they only publish the top twenty equipment list is because no one cares about the rest . good barrels (any brand) are where you find them if there was a way to find a hummer we would not have to waste time chambering and testing so many we could just buy the hummers.
I agree nothing is ever static anyone trying to win is constantly on the hunt for the next thing that may give them an edge
 
Pesky ab said:
some very good points there Jerry , only a couple of things to clarify (and this pertains to sbr ,I cant speak for f class) , there is sometimes a herd mentality at the mid pack level in sbr, that is not the case at the top , top guys will test many brands frequently and pick out the best stuff to go to a big shoot , then next year they will do it all again. equipment lists are not the be all end all but they are a good barometer of what is trending yearly ,the reason they only publish the top twenty equipment list is because no one cares about the rest . good barrels (any brand) are where you find them if there was a way to find a hummer we would not have to waste time chambering and testing so many we could just buy the hummers.
I agree nothing is ever static anyone trying to win is constantly on the hunt for the next thing that may give them an edge
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Well put... why I have a stack of barrels and adding more to try anything and everything to understand how various features affect my shooting.

It would seem the more "hi tech" we get, the more fussy it all is... or maybe, we just want better and better performance.

My point was that this and many other conversations wrt to gear desparately tries to put a box around "best". For those that strive to be the best and want to stay on top, they quickly realise that the box keeps moving. And searching/testing becomes part of the sport.

Before, it was button rifling... currently, for many it is cut rifling... where will things be in a season or two?

The only thing any equipment list shows is what WAS used... not what WILL BE used... but it is a powerful frame of reference. At least for those getting started...

YMMV.

Jerry
 
Coming from an ignoramus regarding this topic, where does hammer-forging fit in here? I'd love to understand the nuances of barrel making better...
 
Silverado said:
Coming from an ignoramus regarding this topic, where does hammer-forging fit in here? I'd love to understand the nuances of barrel making better...[/QUOTE
No hammer forged stuff in sbr for a number of reasons some of which include stresses from the process , they are really quick to make though
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