- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
Especially since the Nodak lower doesn't have an FRT entry. Could be the issue.
AR 180B question.
- Thread starter DILLIGAF
- Start date
Especially since the Nodak lower doesn't have an FRT entry. Could be the issue.
I have one too and none of the bad things mentioned happened. Its the easiest to clean and very light at a little over 6 lbs. I use the iron sights to 300 m and tickles the gongs.
Only thing I would do is to get the folding stock mod to make it compact.
Only thing I would do is to get the folding stock mod to make it compact.
I love mine and will never sell it.
The reports about it being fragile are false from my experience with it. If you don't abuse it the rifle should last for many years. Release the upper and let it swing open on the front pin and it will break. I think even an AR would break if you did that a few times though.
My rifle is not as accurate as my ACR but is just as accurate as my Tavor or Swiss Arms rifles were. It's good enough to hit gongs at 300 yards with the iron sights (not every shot but often enough to be fun trying).
My rifle has never had a failure of any kind and it just keeps getting smoother and smoother the more I shoot it.
I don't worry at all about it breaking at the front hinge pin, if it ever breaks I'll buy and install the Stormworkz repair kit and continue to enjoy my rifle for many more years.
Eugene Stoner actually designed the 18/180 as an improved, and cheaper/easier to manufacture rifle than the M-16 and it was put forward to replace the M-16. If the US gov hadn't already invested so much in the M-16 platform the 180 may have ended up as the US service rifle.
I have zero problems with paying $1200-$1400 for one of these rifles. I don't care what they sold for in the US 20 years ago, I don't care what they sold for in Canada 10 years ago. All I know is that there is nothing available to us right now that is even close to being as good as this rifle is until you spend over $2000 for a used rifle or close to $3000 if it's new.
I owned a Tavor at the same time as my NR-ACR and my 180B-2 and the Tavor is gone while the other two remain in my collection. It has nothing to do with the Tavor being a bullpup (I like bullpup rifles) I got rid of the Tavor because it was too much money tied up in a rifle that other than being small didn't do anything better than the other two.
The reports about it being fragile are false from my experience with it. If you don't abuse it the rifle should last for many years. Release the upper and let it swing open on the front pin and it will break. I think even an AR would break if you did that a few times though.
My rifle is not as accurate as my ACR but is just as accurate as my Tavor or Swiss Arms rifles were. It's good enough to hit gongs at 300 yards with the iron sights (not every shot but often enough to be fun trying).
My rifle has never had a failure of any kind and it just keeps getting smoother and smoother the more I shoot it.
I don't worry at all about it breaking at the front hinge pin, if it ever breaks I'll buy and install the Stormworkz repair kit and continue to enjoy my rifle for many more years.
Eugene Stoner actually designed the 18/180 as an improved, and cheaper/easier to manufacture rifle than the M-16 and it was put forward to replace the M-16. If the US gov hadn't already invested so much in the M-16 platform the 180 may have ended up as the US service rifle.
I have zero problems with paying $1200-$1400 for one of these rifles. I don't care what they sold for in the US 20 years ago, I don't care what they sold for in Canada 10 years ago. All I know is that there is nothing available to us right now that is even close to being as good as this rifle is until you spend over $2000 for a used rifle or close to $3000 if it's new.
I owned a Tavor at the same time as my NR-ACR and my 180B-2 and the Tavor is gone while the other two remain in my collection. It has nothing to do with the Tavor being a bullpup (I like bullpup rifles) I got rid of the Tavor because it was too much money tied up in a rifle that other than being small didn't do anything better than the other two.
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Travis Bickle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Upper Lower Middle Alberta
They are great rifles.
I owned two over the years. Very reliable, accurate enough for a semi auto non restricted.
Takes AR mags, very light, easy to handle. They aren't designed to be smashed against rocks and other stupidity. I put hundreds of rounds through my last one. My first one had thousands, I never even had so much as a single stoppage and I rode the first one very hard.
They are easy to strip and easy to clean as well.
The only thing going against them these days is the price people are trying to hock them at. Utterly ridiculous prices. I sold my last one mint condition, with the hard to find take on/take off receiver rail, ACE skeleton stock, original stock, cleaning kit, and I think 2 LAR15 mags for $1400 plus a very rare/hard to find inner guts spare parts kit.
That's a fair deal IMO.
If they were still being made in large numbers and selling for the original $800 price tag like they did, they would be one of the all around best guns in the country.
Put up a WTB add asking for a bare bones stock model, just the rifle for $1200 and someone who isn't a greedy d**k will probably let it go but even that is high unless it's like new and has a lot of extras with it. Just my 2 cents.
I owned two over the years. Very reliable, accurate enough for a semi auto non restricted.
Takes AR mags, very light, easy to handle. They aren't designed to be smashed against rocks and other stupidity. I put hundreds of rounds through my last one. My first one had thousands, I never even had so much as a single stoppage and I rode the first one very hard.
They are easy to strip and easy to clean as well.
The only thing going against them these days is the price people are trying to hock them at. Utterly ridiculous prices. I sold my last one mint condition, with the hard to find take on/take off receiver rail, ACE skeleton stock, original stock, cleaning kit, and I think 2 LAR15 mags for $1400 plus a very rare/hard to find inner guts spare parts kit.
That's a fair deal IMO.
If they were still being made in large numbers and selling for the original $800 price tag like they did, they would be one of the all around best guns in the country.
Put up a WTB add asking for a bare bones stock model, just the rifle for $1200 and someone who isn't a greedy d**k will probably let it go but even that is high unless it's like new and has a lot of extras with it. Just my 2 cents.
- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
In their forum. New thread.
$3200 for base model.
No.
Travis Bickle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Upper Lower Middle Alberta
Jesus H Christ!
That's more than I paid for my '98 Pickup truck!
They are very well built guns.
Still, I would love to get a really high end rifle like that one of these days, but the current "political situation" won't let me drop that kind of cash on something that may very well be "up for grabs" in the next 5 years if you catch my drift
I'll be waiting to see if they are more reliable than the MH. I've shot 3 MH's and two of them had feeding issues and all three didn't shoot as well as expected with the ammo we tried.
Hopefully the MV is less finicky with ammo and magazines.
Travis Bickle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Upper Lower Middle Alberta
That's the first review I've actually heard that wasn't from someone who dropped upwards of almost $4K on one lol
At that price most people would have to find it "awesome" after dropping that cash on one.
What were the issues with the feeding?
What was the issue with the shooting? Accuracy was not very good?
I was hoping to see an unbiased review on them but most reviews were just pictures of the rifle on a mat or something and fawning over how pretty they were.
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usually no performance review means less than stellar performance.
Im not sure i think ill wait for the hk243
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Two of the rifles were having feeding issues where the bolt would ride over the round but still push it out of the mag enough that the bolt would make a huge dent in the side of the brass. To me that sounds like more of a magazine issue but since the rifle only works with gen 2 pmags and XCR-M pistol mags you're kinda limited on your options. One of the rifles was puncturing primers when firing South African 7.62 FMJ. All three of them were shooting at best just over 1 moa no matter what ammo we tried. We tried 9 different types of factory ammo in one of them with the beat being 165gr Hornady zombie-max. The last rifle I only shot five rounds through so I can't comment on the reliability but accuracy was around 1.5moa with the owners handloads and he said he hadn't found anything yet that was consistently 1 moa.
The MH is a very nice rifle but to me it's not worth the cash they're asking. The one I tried 9 different types of ammo in was the high end build with CF barrel and forend and cost the guy over $5000. I think it was more that I was expecting more for that much money.
The MH didn't shoot any better than my 16 inch AR-10, shot worse than my 24 inch AR-10 and was less reliable and more finicky about magazines than either of them. It was disappointing that a $1500 AR-10 was more reliable and would out shoot the top of the line MH. If it wasn't for the non restricted status I have a hard time believing they would have sold a single rifle at that price.
Travis Bickle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Upper Lower Middle Alberta
Seen.
Yes that is unfortunate.
If they would have maybe simply produced it as a "2-4 MOA" generic AR15 accuracy rifle it could have been the answer to "black rifle elephant in the room" in this country.
Simplified the parts (basic steel barrels in light and heavy profile for instance, stampings for lowers etc) maybe the cost could have been lower and they could have pumped out much more of them and fixed the problem of our sad state of "it's non restricted and it's a black rifle so we sell it for 4 times the price" nonsense in this country.
Don't get me wrong, I fully respect what they did and the work, time and ingenuity that went into the rifle. They built a very highly engineered, complex rifle from scratch around our retarded laws so we could have a non restricted "sort of" AR15. But they tried so hard to make it so much more and better than an AR15 in every way that it may have suffered from it.
It's just my opinion but I think what we masses really need (the holy grail if you will) would be this rifle as a non restricted firearm, drastically simplified in parts and production as an AR15 level of accuracy and simplicity, semi auto, Canadian made black rifle. If the impressive minds that pulled this off are still around then reworking a design like the AR180b (already non restricted design) and tweaking it to improve it slightly where it's weak and just enough to not get sued for infringement would be a walk in the park I'm sure.
Just sounds like after all that, they don't seem to perform as well or shoot more accurately than any generic, slightly above average grade AR10. If I had the time, money and energy that these guys have, that's where I would go. Simplify the design instead of reinventing the wheel, dumb it down, make it more generic in materials and production (hell make the lower decent quality stamped metal even), steer away from the "precision engineering, Saudi-Oil-Baron price tags" niche and hammer out a couple thousand "under $1500", AR15 accuracy, non restricted semi auto black rifles and give us oppressed Canadian masses what we've been screaming for for so long now.
People wouldn't be able to throw their money fast enough at whoever pulls this off.
The MH is definitely capable of better than 2-4 moa but it would need premium ammo like Federal Gold Medal Match or some well developed handloads to do 1 moa or better. Even with the surplus FMJ crap it was able to do 2-4 moa.
I think the people I talked to that own one just expected a little more for the price it cost and the fancy barrels they supplied.
Actually I don't really see it like a lot of engineering went into it and it isn't an overly complex rifle. The BCG looks to be directly from a DPMS AR-10. What they did was machine a very nice upper/lower from billet that is just different enough from an AR-10 that the upper/lower won't work with any AR-10 out there. This was primarily done with the way they eliminated the rear takedown pin which I think even Eugene Stoner would have approved of. I really like what they did there.
Another issue with them I just remembered is on two of the three rifles the non reciprocating side charger handle did not stay locked forward while firing, on last round lock back the handle was almost always somewhere mid stroke. Another minor issue but for the price I would expect a little better.
The part I don't understand is why this rifle is so much more money than their in house AR-15's that have billet upper/lower and the nice barrels.
It also bothers me that they don't seem to give any credit for not having to supply the standard stainless barrel when someone upgrades to the carbon fiber barrel. A quality stainless barrel is typically between $400-$500 and to order a Proof Research carbon fiber wrapped barrel is $940 US, I'm sure they get a better price being that they are buying multiple barrels at once and that they are a shop not a regular joe retail purchaser, that doesn't add up for me. The carbon barrel option should only be maybe $500 more than the stainless option not $975 more (directly from ATRS website).
I don't think they need to simplify the design or dumb it down, what I think they need to do is rely on volume sales to make back their investment rather than trying to make it all back on the first two batches of rifles, I realize they are a small shop and not able to make large volumes of rifles. If the rifle was about $3000 for the base package and about $4000 for the top of the line rifle I would probably sell something off to get one but at their current pricing I'm definitely waiting till they get to around gen 3 on the MH and I'll definitely wait for a while on the MV. Right now my NR ACR does everything a MV will be able to do and I can also swap calibers and run my 300BLK conversion in my ACR with around 30 seconds worth of work.
The MH is definitely a quality firearm and I really like them but my exposure to them left me thinking they needed to do a little more field testing with different magazines and ammo before they released them. If they say that they never marketed it as a sub moa sniper rifle (which I agree that I don't ever recall them stating) then they should have definitely done more testing with more ammo like American Eagle 150gr FMJ and some of the surplus 150ish grain stuff on the market. I have no idea why it won't work with gen 3 pmags. Both my AR-10's would feed from gen 2 and 3 pmags as well as XCR-M pistol mags and DPMS 5/20 steel mags without any issues.
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Ar180b seems superior over the t97nsr, 3 main reasons.
The 97's butchered magwell is a poor fit for many mags.
The 97's mag release which ruined the original ergo of the rifle design, tilt vs stright insert.
Many reports of cycling hiccups from folks.
Ar180B rifles on EE seem over priced, but at least it's an action ready rifle. I wish they're still made, same goes for the RA M96.
Well my plan started with a 180B and finished with a ACR... lol... no wonder i'm broke.
I have a NR Enhanced ACR on the way, Now time to buy a Geissele trigger
you're turning into me, although the one that fell at the bottom of okanagan lake is a regular, not enhanced, enhanced was too short and too much rail for me, you gonna put an acog on it?
let me know where you find that super acr trigger, been looking for one reasonably priced
right before she fell in the lake:
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